General Ice and Panda's dont mix.

[Helz]

I'm sure that everyone will try to avoid an accident if they possibly can.

It can help you it can hinder you. I guess ultimately it's up to you if you don't wish to develop your driving skills and prefer to rely on electronic safety devices to save you. Your choice etc. I thought that was pretty simple too.

In my eyes it's evil, but then i'm a bit strange and don't like ABS either, but I can cope with that. Needless to say I would not have bought my 100hp if I couldn't spec it without ESP.

I further developed my driving skills by taking the IAM advanced driving course (oh yeah and cycling proficiency ) and fail to see what this has to do with not wanting ESP on a car because I then went out and bought a car with DSC (same difference)

 

[ThisBitterPill]

It's sad that this thread has descended into a personal slanging match....

But for what it's worth, I do think, TDQ, that you often come across as derogatory....Whether it's your driving skills or the Panda's shortcomings, most of your posts seem to involve either:

Highlighting your advanced track skills, be it trail braking, drifting or some other technique which the rest of us mortals will never master....

Or how an Integra is the best car for every situation that the Panda (and presumably every other car) seems to be weak in....

Sorry but that's how it comes across....

Not that you're bothered TDQ, you already said you don't care what people think.

 

[nigelr32]

Personally I would always refrain from proclaiming myself to be a 'good driver' because the term is both contextual and relative - you never know what background other people may have.

This statement reminds of the Intermarque race at Snetterton years ago, in the wet.

John Day used to win everything in his Beta Coupe, whereas there was a late 50's guy in a pretty much standard 131 Sport, usually bringing up the rear...

Well, that day at Snetterton, the late 50's guy won!! Just because of the very wet conditions. He was obviously a master of out and out car control.

 

[DraigFlag87]

It's sad that this thread has descended into a personal slanging match....

I've been following this thread too, and i agree with the quote above. The fact that somebody had an accident in their car doesn't prove anything good or bad about their driving, Lewis Hamilton crashed in the pit lane remember, is he a bad driver? We should be grateful that the original poster wasn't doing 60 MPH towards a corner with a cliff at the end, like my friend who lost his life that night, two years ago just before Christmas. Please have some sensitivity and stop making this personnel.
Accidents happen to the best of us.

 

[ScoobyChris]

The fact that somebody had an accident in their car doesn't prove anything good or bad about their driving, Lewis Hamilton crashed in the pit lane remember, is he a bad driver?

I think that highlights that car control is nothing without observational skills

Chris

 

[HP]

I think we're seeing a bit of a trolling tendancy from trackdayqueen here. Best not feed.

 

[ScoobyChris]

One of the things no-one's mentioned is the lack of feedback modern cars give you when compared to cars of old. The abundance of drive by wire throttles, over-servoed brakes, big grippy tyres, cleverly lightening steering, etc all means that the feedback from the car and the predictability of inputs is muffled and the majority of people driving aren't sensitive enough to the information that is being provided to correct it before it becomes a problem...

Chris

 

[dave]

i dont notice any diffrence with drive by wire throttle, unless its not working and to start car twice to make it work

 

[ScoobyChris]

i dont notice any diffrence with drive by wire throttle, unless its not working and to start car twice to make it work

Try heel 'n' toe'ing or left foot braking in a drive by wire car - worst offenders seem to be VAG cars

Chris

 

[Venters]

So this is why we have ESP. Driving standards are poor. Rather than improving people's driving skills ESP was created to allow for that.

Your arrogance is incredible sometimes. Bet you think a spike instead of an airbag is a good idea aswell?

 

[dave]

Try heel 'n' toe'ing or left foot braking in a drive by wire car - worst offenders seem to be VAG cars

Chris

i thought german cars was designed to cut out if both throttle and brake was pressed at same time, or is that only on an auto?

 

[stephenbeetleman]

Your arrogance is incredible sometimes. Bet you think a spike instead of an airbag is a good idea aswell?

 

[Helz]

Try heel 'n' toe'ing or left foot braking in a drive by wire car - worst offenders seem to be VAG cars

Chris

A little note of congratulations on 1000 posts

 

[nigelr32]

One of the things no-one's mentioned is the lack of feedback modern cars give you when compared to cars of old. The abundance of drive by wire throttles, over-servoed brakes, big grippy tyres, cleverly lightening steering, etc all means that the feedback from the car and the predictability of inputs is muffled and the majority of people driving aren't sensitive enough to the information that is being provided to correct it before it becomes a problem...

Chris

I'm with you on that one!!! It's the reason people in general drive so badly these days, in particular, in Mercedes', BMW's and Audi's.
I can't be the only one who's noticed the number of these cars around that obviously have Magnets fitted to their front ends. They drive at speeds around 80mph +, leaving at least three feet between themselves and the car in front!!

I personally believe that all this modern safety stuff in cars is making people feel "Safe" in their steel coccoon, which in turn makes them careless.

And...before anyone goes off on a tangent about people not being able to drive... I'm only saying that in my opinion, Driving standards in this country have declined in the last 20 years, particularly on Motorways.

 

[trackdayqueen]

You drive a car fitted with ESP incorrectly on a racetrack and declare it's dangerous.

I think I know which out of the two of us is making sweeping generalisations based on limited experience.

Err I wasn't driving the car incorrectly I was racing. So you've realised it's you then? Well done.

 

[trackdayqueen]

Try heel 'n' toe'ing or left foot braking in a drive by wire car - worst offenders seem to be VAG cars

Chris

heel and toeing works great in the 100hp. Can do it in the MJ as well but the lack of throttle response is more of an issue. Don't think diesels are well suited to heel and toeing generally.

 

[trackdayqueen]

It's sad that this thread has descended into a personal slanging match....

But for what it's worth, I do think, TDQ, that you often come across as derogatory....Whether it's your driving skills or the Panda's shortcomings, most of your posts seem to involve either:

Highlighting your advanced track skills, be it trail braking, drifting or some other technique which the rest of us mortals will never master....

Or how an Integra is the best car for every situation that the Panda (and presumably every other car) seems to be weak in....

Sorry but that's how it comes across....

Not that you're bothered TDQ, you already said you don't care what people think.

Well if people really don't think before they post, more fool them. I simply offer my experiences that's all. If it doesn't agree with the majority of the forum who are obviously experts then so be it. Like I said I care not.

Well the Integra does set the standard in FWD handling. Not much to disagree about there. It's simply a much more focused car than the panda and that is not surprising really.

 

[trackdayqueen]

I've been following this thread too, and i agree with the quote above. The fact that somebody had an accident in their car doesn't prove anything good or bad about their driving, Lewis Hamilton crashed in the pit lane remember, is he a bad driver? We should be grateful that the original poster wasn't doing 60 MPH towards a corner with a cliff at the end, like my friend who lost his life that night, two years ago just before Christmas. Please have some sensitivity and stop making this personnel.
Accidents happen to the best of us.

I have never said that Dave could have avoided his accident. If you look at the thread you'll see that others have commented that winter tyres and ESP might have saved him. I have disagreed with that which would seem to fall inline with your opinion.

I honestly don't think that this thread has anything to do with you losing a friend two years ago, sorry.

 

[DraigFlag87]

I honestly don't think that this thread has anything to do with you losing a friend two years ago, sorry.

Maybe not, but my point was that accidents happen, and when they do there's barely time to blink, let alone think what tires you should have bought. Like i said, we should be grateful the accident wasn't more serious, what if he had mounted the kerb and there was a child waiting to cross the road? I'm gonna leave it at that because whatever i say is gonna be wrong in the eyes of certain people anyway.

BTW that bend where my friend died has claimed a lot of lives, another time two people in two separate cars, coincidentally both ford escorts, crashed and rolled there on the same night, and it had nothing to do with tires or ESP.

 

[trackdayqueen]

Maybe not, but my point was that accidents happen, and when they do there's barely time to blink, let alone think what tires you should have bought. Like i said, we should be grateful the accident wasn't more serious, what if he had mounted the kerb and there was a child waiting to cross the road? I'm gonna leave it at that because whatever i say is gonna be wrong in the eyes of certain people anyway.

BTW that bend where my friend died has claimed a lot of lives, another time two people in two separate cars, coincidentally both ford escorts, crashed and rolled there on the same night, and it had nothing to do with tires or ESP.

Well this is exactly it, accidents do happen and the seriousness of an accident is dependent on so many things. Those things are not always due to what tyres you have and whether you have ESP or not.

I totally agree there is often not time to blink. When I was 18 I had an elderly woman walk out right in front of my car. Not much I could do apart from brake. She died anyway. It's not easy to realise that sometimes you are a victim and there really isn't anything you can do about it.