I said with ESP and winter tyres it might have saved his little incident. The reply to that is oh but I'm a perfect driver and on a track ESP tried to strangle me so therefore it's evil and shouldn't be fitted to cars.
General Ice and Panda's dont mix.
- Thread starter DavePanda100
- Start date
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General Ice and Panda's dont mix.
Unless you are such a terrible driver that your pathetic excuse for driving skills need a safety net to try and catch you....
OP
OP
Tell you something, today in the lashing down rain, them Goodyear F1 Eagles are amazing
ESP won't stop you driving off a road or crashing into something if you don't try to avoid it. But it helps when conditions are bad, or something unexpected happens. It's pretty simple really but even that seems beyond some people.
I gave my Bravo a thorough test drive in the winter last year. Found a carpark at the top of Hartside pass. On snow and ice with regular tyres, the car was brilliantly controllable. You don't need to set the car up for a corner, balancing the braking and steering and throttle... you just drive it as you would usually - all be it slower.
I gave my Bravo a thorough test drive in the winter last year. Found a carpark at the top of Hartside pass. On snow and ice with regular tyres, the car was brilliantly controllable. You don't need to set the car up for a corner, balancing the braking and steering and throttle... you just drive it as you would usually - all be it slower.
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Tell you something, today in the lashing down rain, them Goodyear F1 Eagles are amazing
What was the ambient temp? Mine as you say are amazing in the wet, but in the wet on a 2/3 degree road they would spin up and slide more than I would expect.
I'm sure that everyone will try to avoid an accident if they possibly can.
It can help you it can hinder you. I guess ultimately it's up to you if you don't wish to develop your driving skills and prefer to rely on electronic safety devices to save you. Your choice etc. I thought that was pretty simple too.
In my eyes it's evil, but then i'm a bit strange and don't like ABS either, but I can cope with that. Needless to say I would not have bought my 100hp if I couldn't spec it without ESP.
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Fluoxetine
New member
Ha ha!
From poor Dave hitting a kerb in his Panda, to 4 wheel drifting in F1 cars...This thread has definitely shown shown impressive 'drifting'...
I've found the Eagle F1's great in the wet, Dave...But like others have said, when the temp drops, I have also found them prone to allowing a wheel to spin up with surprisingly little provocation...I'm hopefully getting some winter tyres fitted this coming week, so will report back on the differences in the other thread, should anyone be interested...
The ESP thing is still rumbling on?
Well, I can't claim to be as qualified as others to speak on the matter, but I believe a certain Walter Röhrl (who used to drive old Fiat's very sideyways) is very much in favour of the principle of such a system for road use...Everyone's entitled to their own opinion, but I'll side with Walter, I think...
(Oh, and he was actually *faster* round the 'ring in a Cayman with ESP turned on...:devil
Is a Fiat Panda's ESP directly comparable with a Porsche's PASM? Probably not, but the basic way in which stability control works is...
Take care out there folks!
From poor Dave hitting a kerb in his Panda, to 4 wheel drifting in F1 cars...This thread has definitely shown shown impressive 'drifting'...
I've found the Eagle F1's great in the wet, Dave...But like others have said, when the temp drops, I have also found them prone to allowing a wheel to spin up with surprisingly little provocation...I'm hopefully getting some winter tyres fitted this coming week, so will report back on the differences in the other thread, should anyone be interested...
The ESP thing is still rumbling on?
Well, I can't claim to be as qualified as others to speak on the matter, but I believe a certain Walter Röhrl (who used to drive old Fiat's very sideyways
) is very much in favour of the principle of such a system for road use...Everyone's entitled to their own opinion, but I'll side with Walter, I think...(Oh, and he was actually *faster* round the 'ring in a Cayman with ESP turned on...:devil
Is a Fiat Panda's ESP directly comparable with a Porsche's PASM? Probably not, but the basic way in which stability control works is...
Take care out there folks!
I'm sure that everyone will try to avoid an accident if they possibly can.
It can help you it can hinder you. I guess ultimately it's up to you if you don't wish to develop your driving skills and prefer to rely on electronic safety devices to save you. Your choice etc. I thought that was pretty simple too.
In my eyes it's evil, but then i'm a bit strange and don't like ABS either, but I can cope with that. Needless to say I would not have bought my 100hp if I couldn't spec it without ESP.
You make an ass of yourself by assuming, and you seem to assume I can't drive a non-ESP equiped car. You seem to have an over inflated ego about your driving, and in my experience that makes a dangerous driver.
Have you never thought that 'developing driving skills' aren't that high on most peoples' agendas?....And those people are the ones likely to lose control and cause accidents....
Looks like the EU are pushing to make it mandatory anyway....
LOL!
I never ever assume honey. You have said so many times yourself that you use the ESP and effectively rely on it to 'help' you.
Well your experience is naturally held in high regard and I would be a fool to ignore it would I not? Who's making assumptions now?
Have you never thought that 'developing driving skills' aren't that high on most peoples' agendas?....And those people are the ones likely to lose control and cause accidents....
Of course I know that most people have no interest whatsoever in trying to improve or even thinking about how their driving could be improved.
So this is why we have ESP. Driving standards are poor. Rather than improving people's driving skills ESP was created to allow for that.
I think it will be a shame if it becomes mandatory. I don't have a problem buying a car with ESP providing I have the option to switch it off. Was a bit annoying in the RX8 though as had to hold the button down for 7 seconds everytime I started it.
Van Diemen
New member
In the main, there is no doubt that traction and staibility control are a good thing for the mass market. It will be a shame that it will become law to have such systems mandated though, because they don't make for a 'fun' system and aren't generally performance orientated. Hopefully SVA cars and low volume niche vehicles will remain exempt though....
I'm not your 'honey'. Please refrain from calling me that.
I've not said I rely on the ESP. I have said I tested the ESP in a car park and found it to be very effective. I don't drive the car on public roads outside of the chassis's capabilities. Once again you're assuming.
I've never said I was a great driver, however I drove perfectly well during previous icey conditions in cars without ESP. You however seem to think you're god's gift to driving. I see that attitude a lot. Usually in the driver who I'm pulling out of a car that's burried in the kitty litter.
I'm terribly sorry about the honey thing. Please don't mention god as i'm a devout atheist and abhor any mention of imaginary beings.
So because I am able to actually drive i'm more likely to have an accident? What kind of logic is that? Once again you are making the mistake of assuming based on your limited experience resulting in you making sweeping generalisations.
You think you're a great driver. Means you're more likely to over-estimate your skill and have a crash. Doesn't sound too illogical to me.
Oh and what's with you and assumptions? Why do you think I have limited experience?
p.s. God, the tooth fairy, truthful politicians and a free lunch.
Not necessarily. Just because I can drive does not mean that I will over-estimate my skill and that's my point because i've spent a lot of time finding out what my limits are and arguably a lot more so than someone who only potters about on the road, so why would I be more likely to over-estimate my skill?
You seem to be making sweeping generalisations which is fairly indicative that you have limited experience in what you are talking about.
You drive a car fitted with ESP incorrectly on a racetrack and declare it's dangerous.
I think I know which out of the two of us is making sweeping generalisations based on limited experience.
I think I know which out of the two of us is making sweeping generalisations based on limited experience.
Fluoxetine
New member
This topic has drifted faaaaar from the initial post - It seems whenever anyone mentions about having an accident, the discussion surrounding driver training / ESP is never far behind...
(And having posted a couple of times regarding the above, I'm just as guilty of thread drift...)
It's really interesting to see the opposing viewpoints, but there's no need for things to take a personal tone...Although I'm sure it's not intentional!!
Easy folks...T'is the season of goodwill and all that!
(And having posted a couple of times regarding the above, I'm just as guilty of thread drift...
)It's really interesting to see the opposing viewpoints, but there's no need for things to take a personal tone...Although I'm sure it's not intentional!!
Easy folks...T'is the season of goodwill and all that!
Fluoxetine
New member
I agree wholeheartedly...Although I experienced variable traction control for the first time in a 2-11 last month, and loved it...Fab for exiting tight corners, and just nailing the throttle...
Great in the damp too...
I want one!!
Van Diemen
New member
Yep, 2-11's are getting a lot of positive feedback from a number of areas. It's even persuading a number of people running heavilly tuned or re-engined S1 Elises/Exiges to make the jump, which considering their generally derogatory view of S2 and Toyota engined cars is saying something!
Personally I would always refrain from proclaiming myself to be a 'good driver' because the term is both contextual and relative - you never know what background other people may have.
Personally I would always refrain from proclaiming myself to be a 'good driver' because the term is both contextual and relative - you never know what background other people may have.
