General I got my remap done but.......

[bravo jtdM150]

I went to get my remap done today.. good news and badish news..

good news is that its done and my standards BHP was 161.5 and it had 261.3 ft lb of torque.

They tuned it up to a whopping 205.8 BHP with 350.4 ft lb of torque!

I was very happy when the chap told me and then he said take it for a spin... i was so happy and couldnt wait to test it.
I jumped in and pulled off normally in 1st and hammered it in 2nd it i felt the extra power straight away.

Badish news...

As soon as i put it in 3rd gear and floored it i felt a shudder from the front end, it also did it in 4th and 5th and 6th.
I returned back and explained and they thought it might be a worn clutch, but i said it cant be its not slipping and its got 25k which was mainly motorway miles. They put it back on the dyno and took off a little BHP and torque. They reduced it too 200.3bhp and 346.6 ft lb ( not a lot i know), took it out for a spin and although it helped a little the shudder/vibration was still present.
If i give it say 1/3 of throttle its fine and the power is delivered with out fuss its only when i floor it.
They suggested it might be clutch or flywheel so i will try the dealers as i also have trouble selecting reverse sometimes.
If the dealers cant do anything i will have to restore the settings back to manufacturer spec.

Im delighted as overall the bravo seems a different beast and feels lighter when pulling off.

I know a couple of 150 mjets owners remapped theirs just wondering what figures you got especially the torque as 350 ft lb seems alot.

The staff were fantastic and very helpful.

 

[Rustbucket]

27% increase is pretty good. How did they do it..remap / fueling via rolling road or simply increase the boost? If its the boost only then the high torque may be torque spikes with the real figure a good bit less.

Hope the brakes / clutch are up to the job....

Out of curiosity what are your insurers charging you for this? Mine were a bunch of complete ash* les...

 

[bravo jtdM150]

yeah pretty impressive.

They put it on a dyno and done a before and after.

i dont want to mention about the insurance!!

I think the flywheel cant handle it as it shudders when i floor it.

 

[Rustbucket]

Thats the trouble with modding..slippery slope, next you find the brakes fade so you upgrade them, then its FMIC and a bigger turbo...Ho Hum

 

[bravo jtdM150]

I wont be upgrading brakes etc.

Hopefully i can get the shudder sorted at FIAT and only use the extra horses when i need it.

 

[lyubohar]

Thats the trouble with modding..slippery slope, next you find the brakes fade so you upgrade them, then its FMIC and a bigger turbo...Ho Hum

Sorry for the off topic, but while you're at it...Why would you need to upgrade brakes after remapping? I've been always curious. I mean, you don't add extra weight when remapping, so breaks should be able to stop you from any speed, no matter how fast you got there...

 

[Rustbucket]

Sorry for the off topic, but while you're at it...Why would you need to upgrade brakes after remapping? I've been always curious. I mean, you don't add extra weight when remapping, so breaks should be able to stop you from any speed, no matter how fast you got there...

Not so. Barchetta brakes are fine with 130Hp but useless (fade) with 200Hp. Suspect its the same with the Bravo. More Hp, more speed, more power: bigger stoppers. Have a look at the brakes on any performance car vs the standard version.

 

[r16pab]

sounds like same issue here.
https://www.fiatforum.com/bravo/218179-mjet-1-9-bad-vibration-underload-flywheel.html

Probably not a fault of the car but your just giving something to much power which it cant handle as I bet it was not there before hand ??.

 

[lyubohar]

Not so. Barchetta brakes are fine with 130Hp but useless (fade) with 200Hp. Suspect its the same with the Bravo. More Hp, more speed, more power: bigger stoppers. Have a look at the brakes on any performance car vs the standard version.

Still does not answer why. Why are Barchetta brakes useless with 200 hp? I mean, if you test stopping from 50mph with 130hp and from 50mph with 200hp, what would be the difference? I know performance cars have better brakes, but in their case that's justified by the fact the car has high maximum speed, and you need something serious to stop you from 150mph. However if you don't push your Barchetta to the maximum speed limit, but drive it just as before (only accelerating faster), it shouldn't make any difference.

 

[rikki16vt]

What you said is true when the vehicle is driven in a constant speed, and as long as the weight is the same, it will take the same braking force, time & distance to bring the 2 (mod & stock) cars to a stop.

With a re-mapped engine means increased power & torque, the vehicle will get a higher top speed (due to power) and will accelerate harder (due to the extra torque). Trust me, once you have modified an engine, you will enjoy the extra performance, and you will use it because it is so addictive!

Soon or later, you will arrive at a corner with higher speed than you previously would, and you will find the standard brakes will not be up to the job after a few corners (usual sign would be early brake fade) ...... next mod on the list would be fast road brake pads / big drill disc / multi-pots calipers / steel brake hose / high performance tyres and the list goes on ......

There is a reason why people called it a "slippery slope"!

Been there, done that, got the T-shirt!

 

[lyubohar]

Fully agree, but my points was what if you drive the car exactly as before - same top speed, only getting there faster. That's only theory, of course, I understand things will be different in real life

So after second thought I guess the answer I was looking for is that harder acceleration means bigger inertia to handle when stopping. So even if the top speed you get to with normal and remapped engine is the same, getting there faster in one of the cases would mean higher generated inertia and therefore bigger/stronger brakes to restrain it.

 

[MJet1986]

Hiya mate, its most def the flywheel, i got the same problem at the moment, but mine has been remaped awhile now till i noticed this problem, its booked in for jan time.. I wouldnt hammer it if i was you, basically the flywheel works like a torsion damper for the clutch if its knackerd ive seen some explode thats why i been pottering about in mine till it gets fix, you can hammer it after you got out of second gear but i dont advise hard pull aways off the lights etc or letting it wheel spin! i see u got pretty much the same figures as me, looks like you got a healthy engine!! well done i managed 369lbs of torque the second time i went back, the car seemed to have gained more power after a month of driving lol. I keep meaning to go back there and get the power turned down to about 190bhp i feel it will perform better as with over 200 there seems to be alot of black smoke on the build of power and then clears at the top end of the revs. so basically its unburnt diesel which is pointless and in some cases lose power. i know you can fit a NOs kit to burn the extra diesel off which sounds intresting and increase the power!!!lol

 

[bravo jtdM150]

Hi mate, yeah we got good engines we might has well say we have the 165bhp lol.

It never shudder before the map, 205bhp is alot and with all that torque it does fly.
Im worried that if/when i get the flywheel/clutch done its just a matter of time before the flywheel goes again, and again.
I dont mind getting the power down to like what you said 190 and lower the torque by 50ft lb or so.
I presume they can do that at red dot because when they tried to lower mine they only took off 5.5bhp and 5 ft lb torque.

Mine shudders in 3rd 4th 5th and 6th so its pretty bad.
I wont like to add nos to it lol i might as well engrave my name on the roof.

To make things worse i got hit from behind on the way back..arrghhhh... its only a small dent on the 1/4 panel and scratched bumper but i have to go through the hassle of getting it repaired and waiting....

If i want to reset everything i can but im in two minds atm..HELP:worship:

 

[Hellcat]

Fully agree, but my points was what if you drive the car exactly as before - same top speed, only getting there faster. That's only theory, of course, I understand things will be different in real life

The answer is as follows.

Lets take into account a road near me. Sharp (under 10mph) left onto half mile straight into medium left (40) then hard right (30), mile long straight then medium left (40) 150 yards then easy right (50) and away.

In a previous car (marea 105jtd) after braking for the 1st medium left I could then accelerate a bit to maybe 45-50 then brake into the hard right. In the 130jtd marea my acceleration out of the 1st corner would get me to 60mph. That means in the faster car I need to scrub 10-15mph extra.

In the 105jtd, at the 2nd set of corners, I could accelerate out of the first corner and continue without braking. In the 130jtd, I'd arrive at the right hander 10-15mph above the speed to get around it... so I'd be using the brakes again.

Multiply this by a whole journey of B-roads and the smaller brakes on the 105jtd would be overheating and faded. The 130jtd though has bigger brakes.

 

[rikki16vt]

Hiya mate, its most def the flywheel

Okay! I must be damn thick on this one! I can understand that the massive increase in torque can kill the pressure plate, it can also cook the clutch disc but ...... what does flywheel got to do with this?

I think you guys need an uprated new clutch to cope with the massive torque increase, and probably need to re-surface the flywheel, but I seriously doubt it that the flywheel can be warpped on its own while your clutch system is still intact. It does not make much sense to me.

The shudder could be caused by the clutch slipping due to the massive torque, you can either de-tune the engine a bit to hide the problem for a while (it will still come back to haunt you as the clutch wears out further) or you need an upgrade clutch system.

There is no free lunch in this world, once you massively tune up the engine, the other components will start to give-in!

 

[bravo jtdM150]

the bravo has a dual mass flywheel. it has springs in it to stop vibrations and the increase in power doesnt help.
The clutch isnt slipping as it still pulls fine.

Once the flywheel and clutch is replaced i will reduce the power a little to help.

The other guy who mapped his took it to the dealer and they said its the flywheel.

i will ask the tuning compant to reduce it to 190bhp with less torque if they cant i can set it back to standard.

 

[neilshep]

eLearn - Contents Flywheel intro from eLearn:

CONSTRUCTION SPECIFICATIONS

Dual mass, DVA (dual mass vibration-damping flywheel), one mass integral with the crankshaft and the other on the gearbox mainshaft with an interposed flexible torsional damping system.
The resonance points which, on the conventional system (rigid flywheel and dampened disc) are found at between 800 and 2200 rpm, have been moved to lower rotation speeds, outside of the operation range, thereby allowing improved damping of torsional vibrations and a reduction in noise.
The clutch engagement mechanism, located between the dual flywheel and gearbox, consists of a rigid plate (unsprung) that improves gear manoeuvrability due to its reduced inertia.

1 - Crankshaft
2 - Mass integral with the crankshaft
3 - Mass integral with the gearbox mainshaft
4 - Flexible torsional damping system
5 - Clutch plate
6 - Thrust spring
7 - Thrust bearing
8 - Gearbox mainshaft
9 - Ring gear

 

[bravo jtdM150]

im putting the car back to standard... the gearbox needs to come out to investigate, such a shame but its just too much power for the car to handle and i dont want anything striped to find the cause of the shudder.

Its got 161bhp as standard anyway so im haps with that.

 

[craig20102010]

what company did you use and how much was it?

 

[Rustbucket]

You've had a major power gain over stock and TBH I'm not surprised there are some problems. I'd consider a clutch/gearbox upgrade to go with the re-map. When I did mine I was advised the gearbox / clutch combo wouldn't take the power, (brute torque up from 130Nm to 300Nm) and sure enough with a month the clutch started slipping so I changed both.

Maybe get a second or third opinion before wasting the money and going back to stock?