Technical Help me identify the engine

[Riba]

Last week I bought a 1995 Ducato campervan. Even though it says 2.5TDI on the sides, the installed engine definitely doesn't have turbo and runs like it doesn't. I suspect the engine has been replaced at some point in the past, but not being familiar with the Fiat diesel engines I am not sure what to look for. Can anyone identify the engine based on the photo? Another question is: for import purposes they will apparently look for the engine number. Supposedly it is stamped somewhere on the engine block. Anyone knows the exact spot?
Thanks a million!

 

[Anthony489]

Hi

The vehicle rating plate shows a 8140.47 engine which is a 2.5 Litre Turbo Diesel, so that tallies with the vehicle's badging.

The turbo is mounted quite low down at the back of the engine, so may not be immediately apparent. This is a non-crossflow design, so the alloy inlet manifold sits above the cast iron exhaust manifold. There should also be an intercooler with its large diameter air pipes. Low performance could be due to a lack of boost, e.g. because the wastegate or its control mechanism is seized.

If you are certain that it's a non-turbo, it's possible that it has been swapped for a 8140.67 engine, the non turbo variant. With 33% less torque performance is going to feel leisurely. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sofim_8140_engine

Sorry, I don't know where the engine number is stamped

 

[Communicator]

Last week I bought a 1995 Ducato campervan. Even though it says 2.5TDI on the sides, the installed engine definitely doesn't have turbo and runs like it doesn't. I suspect the engine has been replaced at some point in the past, but not being familiar with the Fiat diesel engines I am not sure what to look for. Can anyone identify the engine based on the photo? Another question is: for import purposes they will apparently look for the engine number. Supposedly it is stamped somewhere on the engine block. Anyone knows the exact spot?
Thanks a million!

The VIN plate says 8140.47 which is an intercooled turbo diesel. Your picture of the engine depicts a similar if not identical engine.
To the RHS of the photo I can see the ribbed air filter inlet hose with a similar outlet hose at a lower level roughly at right angles and leading to the turbo behind the engine. There are two large smooth hoses across the front of the engine. The lower hose is the boost pressure hose from the turbo outlet to the intercooler inlet. The upper hose connects between the intercooler outlet and the inlet manifold, where the glow plug and solenoid valve for the flame starter can be seen.

This layout is similar to that on my 2006 2.8jtd, which is an 8140 series engine. Photo of turbo area attached.

I must question your assertion that the engine does not have a turbo. If it had been removed the exhaust and inlet systems would need the gaps filled.

More probably the turbo is not functioning correctly, perhaps with the waste gate lever arm broken.

 

[Communicator]

Hi

The vehicle rating plate shows a 8140.47 engine which is a 2.5 Litre Turbo Diesel, so that tallies with the vehicle's badging.

The turbo is mounted quite low down at the back of the engine, so may not be immediately apparent. This is a non-crossflow design, so the alloy inlet manifold sits above the cast iron exhaust manifold. There should also be an intercooler with its large diameter air pipes. Low performance could be due to a lack of boost, e.g. because the wastegate or its control mechanism is seized.

If you are certain that it's a non-turbo, it's possible that it has been swapped for a 8140.67 engine, the non turbo variant. With 33% less torque performance is going to feel leisurely. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sofim_8140_engine

Sorry, I don't know where the engine number is stamped

Sorry @Anthony489 but in this rare instance, I have to disagree with you. All the pipework for an intercooled turbo diesel is there, and very similar to my 2.8jtd (8140.43s).

 

[Riba]

Thanks lads! The news about the lack of turbo has been passed by the mechanic who does servicing for a friend who collected the van in Germany. I didn't question it, but after your comments I will take a closer look tomorrow.

 

[Communicator]

Thanks lads! The news about the lack of turbo has been passed by the mechanic who does servicing for a friend who collected the van in Germany. I didn't question it, but after your comments I will take a closer look tomorrow.

I would not recommend that mechanic.

 

[Riba]

Need to apologize for wasting everyone's time and not doing my homework before posting. Turns out the person who claimed there is no turbo was the guy doing the bodywork. He did a great job on the chassis though.

The turbo is there, just not alive and well. I will search the forum to educate myself of the common failures and start from there.

 

[Anthony489]

No worries, let's hope you get it sorted.

The pneumatic canister thing with the rod controls the wastegate, which in turn opens as required to limit the boost pressure to typically 12 PSI (I don't have the exact figure). One reason for low boost (= low performance) is if the wastegate is not fully closing. This can happen if the wastegate flap is stuck or if there is a problem with the control canister or linkage. None of these parts is outrageously expensive, but due to their position they are a faff to get to. Another reason for low boost is an air leak somewhere between the turbo output and the inlet manifold, i.e. in the pressurised air trunking and/or the intercooler. If the air leaks out you won't get full boost.

 

[Riba]

Before I start taking things apart, I need to verify that I have realistic expectations from the engine. Is there a simple way to verify the turbo operation? Getting over 129 km/h is a struggle - not really a complaint as I'm not in a hurry, and even a sligtest incline requires me to downshift to 4th gear. Maybe that is how it should be.

 

[Communicator]

Before I start taking things apart, I need to verify that I have realistic expectations from the engine. Is there a simple way to verify the turbo operation? Getting over 129 km/h is a struggle - not really a complaint as I'm not in a hurry, and even a sligtest incline requires me to downshift to 4th gear. Maybe that is how it should be.

!29kph equates to 80mph. I have never driven my 2.8jtd at over 70mph. Yes, I think perhaps you are expecting too much. Maximum torque on the 8140.47 engine is at 2000rpm. The fifth gear in 5 speed boxes is a large step up from fourth, and I would expect to change down below 50mph.

The wastegate linkage in your photo does not appear to be broken. (There have been some reports of the pin or lever breaking free from the wastgate, allowing it to move without control.)

I cannot think of a simple way to confirm turbo operation, other than by fitting a boost pressure gauge. As the wastegate on your engine is controlled by the boost pressure, a gauge could be tapped into the small pressure hose that connects to the control capsule/cylinder. You ma not consider that to be simple.