Technical Hard to change gears after transmission service

[ultrasonic]

Hi all,
I have a panda cross 1.2 60hp 2009 model with wire clutch (not hydraulic). I recently had the clutch replaced along with all the bearings/seals of the transmission (was noisy when clutch was depressed). I was advised to replace the main shaft front bearing with roller type, rather than ball type, as rollers are much more robust. As it turned out, it was the old front shaft ball bearing that started failing and making noise.

After taking the car form the mechanic and driving around a bit, all the noise was gone and the clutch was smooth as butter. However, I noticed that changing 1,2,3rd gear was rough/hard and you could hear it as well. Could it be wrong clutch cable adjustment or does it need some time for the gears to "set" in the slightly new shaft positions? I'll inquire with the mechanic, but I'd like other opinions as well. I would hate to think that the shop messed up...

Cheers

 

[koalar]

Home Page

aftersales.fiat.com

Adjustment procedure link above

Carpet stuck under pedal is also common

Whether that the problem I can't say

 

[koalar]

or does it need some time for the gears to "set" in the slightly new shaft positions?

No

 

[ultrasonic]

Home Page

aftersales.fiat.com

Adjustment procedure link above

Carpet stuck under pedal is also common

Whether that the problem I can't say

Done this, they have what it seems to be an error: in the text it say clearance 115m and in the table 140+-7mm. I did the 2nd. They shifting seems better but the lever is still binding... I am thinking of this: https://aftersales.fiat.com/elearns...ame=Procedure&validityName=1.2 8v&isExaminer=

cables need adjusting?

 

[koalar]

Done this, they have what it seems to be an error: in the text it say clearance 115m and in the table 140+-7mm. I did the 2nd. They shifting seems better but the lever is still binding... I am thinking of this: https://aftersales.fiat.com/elearnsections/main.aspx?nodeID=2752669&languageID=2&markID=1&modelID=2000044&valID=2000901&prodID=169000001&modelName=Fiat - 169 - Panda&langDesc=English&sectionName=Procedure&validityName=1.2 8v&isExaminer=

cables need adjusting?

I doubt it

That adjustment is for the gear stick left to right adjustment, it rarely needs adjustment, in fact that adjustment is omitted from some cables

Seeing as a mechanic fitted the clutch then it's probably up to then to sort it

If you want to try a quick fix

First.establish if it a gearbox or clutch problem

Do the gears select easy with the engine off

 

[ultrasonic]

As odd as it sounds, adjusting the gear stick helped a lot, I am guessing because the gear cable is worn or a slight position change since I also replaced the lower and back engine mounts... After a few miles it works decently but there is a slight crunch from 1 to 2 and sometimes from 2 to 3. That is if you don't wait for the rpm to lower a bit... I am guessing it's a synchro issue that the workshop missed/ignored (perhaps on purpose so they can get paid). If I had known I would have just gone for a 2hand box since overhauling synchros costs a fortune and I would have gotten two gearboxes for the same money I paid . They also used wrong gearbox oil 75-85 GL4 as Fiat clearly states 75-80 GL5 for this gearbox. Regardless, I am not going anywhere near that shop again, I'll change the gearbox oil in case of any debris and just be careful with it (hopefully it won't fail).

Forgot to mention they adjusted the clutch pedal cable erroneously. I had to move the pedal up and increase the clearance for around 3 cm....

 

[ultrasonic]

For the record I opened the vent cap today and this is what I found...

 

[koalar]

Can't really see too much in the photo

It's burred and camera shake, not any easy location to photograph

I am guessing it's got a bit of gold glitter in there

There will always be some wear on the balk rings, so some is to be expected

slight crunch, sounds like the clutch isn't disengaging , 1,2,3 and reverse are normally the worst, needs sorting as it's causing wear

If you want to try and fix it yourself

First.establish if it a gearbox or clutch problem

Do the gears select easy with the engine off

 

[DaveMcT]

To remove the gearbox bell-housing and access the input shaft bearing, you have to take off the get selector mechanism. Get that set incorrectly and you'll not be able to access first and second gears. It's easy enough to pop off the cover and realign everything.

As for gearbox oil - DO NOT let run with a reduced level as that will starve the new bearing especially if the car is regularly parked with left side down (road camber). Later boxes have a larger bearing that doesn't get shrouded by the adjacent gear. I overfill mine as best you can with a squeeze gear oil bottle before whacking the plug back on. It's never affected gear shifting and it has to help. Just don't go mad. Later boxes seem to have solved the problem.

 

[koalar]

To remove the gearbox bell-housing and access the input shaft bearing, you have to take off the get selector mechanism. Get that set incorrectly and you'll not be able to access first and second gears. It's easy enough to pop off the cover and realign everything.

Nothing to be gained by removing this, waste of time and sealant

Everything is aligned under here correctly as all the gears can be selected

Nothing under here causes a crunch between gear changes

 

[DaveMcT]

Fair enough. Mine never caused gears to crunch. I was simply unable to reach first & second. The fix was quickly done.

 

[ultrasonic]

Can't really see too much in the photo

It's burred and camera shake, not any easy location to photograph

I am guessing it's got a bit of gold glitter in there

There will always be some wear on the balk rings, so some is to be expected

slight crunch, sounds like the clutch isn't disengaging , 1,2,3 and reverse are normally the worst, needs sorting as it's causing wear

If you want to try and fix it yourself

First.establish if it a gearbox or clutch problem

Do the gears select easy with the engine off

I had the car driven by an expert. It appears that the mechanic didn't lube correctly (perhaps not at all) some small gearbox parts during assembly. They also hadn't lube the selector wires from the gearbox side and the clutch pedal had to be lifted as well. Car is fine now, I'll just change the gearbox oil one last time just to get rid of any leftover crud. Thanks for all the help.

 

[ultrasonic]

Coming back for an update... it seems that the mechanic who fitted the gearbox messed up the selector cables... no idea how one can do that... I had to refit them myself. Just for the record I am leaving photos if it helps someone.

 

[koalar]

Coming back for an update... it seems that the mechanic who fitted the gearbox messed up the selector cables... no idea how one can do that... I had to refit them myself. Just for the record I am leaving photos if it helps someone.

Not sure I can see what's wrong in the photo

 

[ultrasonic]

Not sure I can see what's wrong in the photo

The cable that you see being on top should have been below the other one. If you leave it like this you can still shift but it's not smooth because the cables stretch.