Technical Gearbox interchange question

[DRSIK]

My engine was taken from this car

T964 ARB
Fiat ( 1999)
Seicento 1.1

Can you please advise which gearboxes (panda, punto mk1, punto mk2 etc etc) are common so I can search out a nice one on ebay.

I know that these engines share loads of common parts but I done want to bid on one only to find that it does not fit.

Please also advise if they fit but the ratios are different.

Thanks in advance.

 

[fingers99]

We need to know more about the car. Primarily, is it S, SX or Sporting? Does it have (and this is the crucial bit) wet or dry inner CV joints? You can tell the difference by looking at where the drive shaft meets the differential (on the gearbox). On the wet CV joint cars the gaiter for the inner CV joint goes all the way to the gearbox and the inner CV joint is actually in the differential housing. Usually wet shaft cars have no reverse detente.

 

[DRSIK]

I only have the engine gearbox and speedo assembly from the car - is there any way to tell from these ?

 

[fingers99]

Holy carp batman, why didn't you say that in the first place? It does help if you say what you're planning to do!

Any box that came off a FIRE engined car will fit. So, and 1.1. 1.2. or 1.4 FIRE engines, 8v or 16v. Driveshaft lengths, cup sizes, number of gears and clutch operation (can be cable or hydraulic) and ratios vary, but everything can be worked around (within reason). ASAIK, there is no full published list of ratios.

So, Punto 55,60,75. 1.2 Punto Mk2, all 1.4 Puntos except the Punto GT. Cinq Sporting, Seicento Sporting.

There are a lot of rubbish gearboxes on eBay: approach with care.

Now, if you told us what you were building, we might be able to offer more useful help.

 

[Duncan]

What about classic Panda?

 

[fingers99]

Probably -- also new 500 (except, maybe, the Abarth). Still, plenty to be getting on with................

 

[DRSIK]

Sorry fingers - I thought you had seen in my earlier post I have a mischief machine that uses seicento parts (changed my avatar to show it)

I already have this engine fitted but the 3rd gear syncro is on the way out - so I was going to do a swap out then overhaul the original box (I work for a bearing and seal company so that part is not a problem as long as I can identify them) I am still looking for all the torque/shim settings

I wanted as close a match as possible so I can do a straight swap

 

[cc1]

The newer (2003 on) Panda 1.1 box fits fine, with selector and speedo drive changers, and seems to have better ratio's to give a good option. I have one on my car.

 

[fingers99]

Is it that buggy with the hydraulic clutch? If so, I'd go for a Punto box (very few had cable clutches). Depending on driveshafts you may need to swap the cups over, but otherwise, easy peasy. Check -- at least -- the input shaft bearing and seal on the Punto box -- for reasons no one really knows, the Punto ones seem to have been underspecced.

The only gearbox stuff I've ever seen published is in Dutch and Polish. And I seem to have lost it! :bang:

I believe that FIAT have all the gearbox stuff in a manual (or on a CD!) separate from the main manuals: if you're lucky, a local dealer might give you access/make you a copy.

 

[Duncan]

Out of interest, anyone know the shortest ratio standard Fiat box that fits? Something like the Abarth Seicento gearbox?

 

[fingers99]

My guess is that it would be that, unless you can source something that had the 1 litre engine. (Uno?)

 

[DRSIK]

Do you think this would fit - and are there any problems with these http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Fiat-Punto-Sporting-2002-6-Speed-1-2-16v-Manual-Gearbox-60-000-Miles-2000-2006-/121292289868?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item1c3d95774c

 

[fingers99]

Yes, but it looks rough as though some fool has mounted a kerb or something. There's a 5 speed whoch looks better (and is cheaper) on there.

No real problems except that input bearings (and input shaft seals) seem prone to failure on Puntos.

 

[DRSIK]

I thoought the Punto and Seicento gearboxes were the same - does this mean the Sei box has the same problems - or do you think it is the different relative sizes of the cars causing it ?

 

[fingers99]

They are the same -- but I've a sneaking suspicion that the Punto ones are assembled in Italy, the Cento ones in Poland, and that some fool under specified the bearings.

 

[DRSIK]

So a bearing swap will do the trick then

Not a problem for me

 

[fingers99]

And a new seal. Some enterprising person is selling kits on eBay for poor Puntistas.