Technical Fuel system parts (and the pain it is to find them)

[cybertruckino]

Hi there, this is my first time restoring a car up front. I have some technical experience, but its not necessarily mechanical experience.

I bought a 1985 Fiat Panda 4x2 (with the steel MK1 fuel tank). Unfortunately, everything seems shot and needs either fixing or replacing.

The fuel filler neck (all metal) I got out and got epoxy for to patch the smaller holes. Ill be soda blasting it. The fuel tank I found (expensive, 400+ euro) new alternatives for (but if any of you have one laying around let me know please!!!) and the hoses to the tank unit to the carb seem to be pretty standard fortunately, so I can get those easily.

Except one... the hose connecting the neck to the tank!!

It is 48mm inside diameter. I have gone to every local parts store, looked on this forum and evaluated the hose if it had a part number but it didn't. Its such a small but very important part since I cant properly use the car without it.
Im at a loss for where to look and how to find this part. It doesn't need to be 1:1, its not a part under pressure so I can hose clamp it down. It just needs to be fuel resistant for when the car is being filled and fit over both parts.

Any help would be very appreciated, thank you so much in advance!

 

[porta]

Try your local truck/plant/boat services, one of them should be able to assist

 

[cybertruckino]

Try your local truck/plant/boat services, one of them should be able to assist

I went to 4-5 shops (anywhere from general to tractor) and none of them have that diameter that is also fuel resistant

 

[porta]

Next port of call has to be scrappers then, doesn’t have to be same car, just right internal diameter and same length or longer

 

[bugsymike]

You could go "overkill " and use the heavy duty thick steel braided rubber hose used for water cooled exhausts on boats, which comes in all sorts of diameters, the only thing is you will have to use Mykalor type clamps that you tighten with a spanner as jubilee clips would be useless.
Marine suppliers that deal with inboard water cooled engines should be able to help.
It usually comes in straight lengths and is not cheap, though you may find odd bits at boat jumbles.

 

[Dragon Man]

i am also having a hard time finding fuel a fuel tank for a 4x4. i have used epoxy tank sealer and even welded the tank up but it still leaks even with the epoxy seal poured inside the tank and internally coated. i think when you bolt the tank to the bottom of the car it bends it in some way and cracks the epoxy. sadly here in the uk fuel tanks are getting on for £600.

i am going around every plastic forming place i can find to see if they can make me a replacement plastic tank replica of the steel one but no one wants to give it a go, even after saying that i will buy 20 or 30 tanks from them (with the intent to store them and sell them on to people who need them in the future for a lot less than the steel tanks are). one company came close to production estimating that each tank would cost £50 to produce and make if i ordered 30 tanks, however they backed out saying it was too smaller of a job

i hate to say it, but the only way now is to have a fuel cell in the boot. or convert to LPG and use a tiny fuel tank for starting the car with.

 

[bugsymike]

i am also having a hard time finding fuel a fuel tank for a 4x4. i have used epoxy tank sealer and even welded the tank up but it still leaks even with the epoxy seal poured inside the tank and internally coated. i think when you bolt the tank to the bottom of the car it bends it in some way and cracks the epoxy. sadly here in the uk fuel tanks are getting on for £600.

i am going around every plastic forming place i can find to see if they can make me a replacement plastic tank replica of the steel one but no one wants to give it a go, even after saying that i will buy 20 or 30 tanks from them (with the intent to store them and sell them on to people who need them in the future for a lot less than the steel tanks are). one company came close to production estimating that each tank would cost £50 to produce and make if i ordered 30 tanks, however they backed out saying it was too smaller of a job

i hate to say it, but the only way now is to have a fuel cell in the boot. or convert to LPG and use a tiny fuel tank for starting the car with.

Depending where the rust is many years ago it was common practice to steam clean inside a petrol tank and it was then welded, we used to have a local bodyshop that did it, but it fairness not something I would want to do as when the welding heats the metal, any residue fuel would turn into a more volatile gas.
Some years later I bought a DC TIG welder from a guy who was retiring from making new stainless steel fuel and water tanks for boats, mind you fitting to a cars contours underneath is probably more of a job than maybe a slight triangle shape to fit in the bow of a boat!

 

[porta]

have you tried one of the aluminium fuel tank fabricators.
Wehn my 128 coupe tank went I cleaned it all out and glass fibre resined the inside of the tank and, externally, glass fibred with about three layers of mat
I did this later on an X19 tank but it wasn’t as successful, as I think the bottom of the tank was just too far gone, and I was basically just coalescing rust and resin

 

[bugsymike]

have you tried one of the aluminium fuel tank fabricators.
Wehn my 128 coupe tank went I cleaned it all out and glass fibre resined the inside of the tank and, externally, glass fibred with about three layers of mat
I did this later on an X19 tank but it wasn’t as successful, as I think the bottom of the tank was just too far gone, and I was basically just coalescing rust and resin

I bought a Leyland Sherpa van and negotiated a price reduction due to the fuel tank being Epoxy resined by the boat builder owner even though he was emphatic the repair was good. In fairness to him I had no problems with his repair all the time I owned the vehicle.
It does have to be Epoxy and not polyester resin though.

 

[cybertruckino]

i am also having a hard time finding fuel a fuel tank for a 4x4. i have used epoxy tank sealer and even welded the tank up but it still leaks even with the epoxy seal poured inside the tank and internally coated. i think when you bolt the tank to the bottom of the car it bends it in some way and cracks the epoxy. sadly here in the uk fuel tanks are getting on for £600.

i am going around every plastic forming place i can find to see if they can make me a replacement plastic tank replica of the steel one but no one wants to give it a go, even after saying that i will buy 20 or 30 tanks from them (with the intent to store them and sell them on to people who need them in the future for a lot less than the steel tanks are). one company came close to production estimating that each tank would cost £50 to produce and make if i ordered 30 tanks, however they backed out saying it was too smaller of a job

i hate to say it, but the only way now is to have a fuel cell in the boot. or convert to LPG and use a tiny fuel tank for starting the car with.

Yeah, when fabricating so niche its always hard to find a place that is willing to do it. I have a tank that for now I can use (albeit that it is rusty and probably not gonna last eternally) but it should work for getting the car rolling. I might look into making a cast or finding a similar place here locally for the plastic tank. Be sure to let me know you manage to find a partner!! I would love to be your first customer.

You could go "overkill " and use the heavy duty thick steel braided rubber hose used for water cooled exhausts on boats, which comes in all sorts of diameters, the only thing is you will have to use Mykalor type clamps that you tighten with a spanner as jubilee clips would be useless.
Marine suppliers that deal with inboard water cooled engines should be able to help.
It usually comes in straight lengths and is not cheap, though you may find odd bits at boat jumbles.

I called them and just for future reference; the boat store I called offered to order it during the winter stop which saves a lot of money. Thankfully I shopped around a bit more and also online and found that certain old volkswagens also use a hose that appears to be the same size as the pandas, and it even comes in an extended length. It should arrive tomorrow so fingers crossed it fits! If it does I'll update the thread for future people struggling with this.

I bought a Leyland Sherpa van and negotiated a price reduction due to the fuel tank being Epoxy resined by the boat builder owner even though he was emphatic the repair was good. In fairness to him I had no problems with his repair all the time I owned the vehicle.
It does have to be Epoxy and not polyester resin though.

So how exactly would coating something in epoxy resin like that work? Do you happen to have experience with it or not?

I'm still tempted to try and fix my original tank that was under the panda. I bought tank sealer which will go bad in a few months so I'm gonna try something with it atleast, might aswell see how the resin + sealant combo works and post findings here..

 

[bugsymike]

So how exactly would coating something in epoxy resin like that work? Do you happen to have experience with it or not?

I'm still tempted to try and fix my original tank that was under the panda. I bought tank sealer which will go bad in a few months so I'm gonna try something with it atleast, might aswell see how the resin + sealant combo works and post findings here..

The old Sherpa van I bought with the tank repaired by the previous boat builder owner was coated externally with fibreglass matting using epoxy resin (must not be cheap polyester resin used for car repairs etc) epoxy is dearer but much stronger and seals better.
The Sherpa tank simply bolted up from underneath so probably easier than your job.
Note not coated inside the tank as I believe hard to get into all the areas, so fuel can creep out especially petrol.
It did last all the time I owned the vehicle, but to do the job the tank had to be well prepared, cleaned and sanded, by the way if any loose rust etc. in tank you will still need a good filter setup .

 

[cybertruckino]

I called them and just for future reference; the boat store I called offered to order it during the winter stop which saves a lot of money. Thankfully I shopped around a bit more and also online and found that certain old volkswagens also use a hose that appears to be the same size as the pandas, and it even comes in an extended length. It should arrive tomorrow so fingers crossed it fits! If it does I'll update the thread for future people struggling with this.

Allright! Good news everyone, the hose I ordered fits . I think the diameter is maybe a bit smaller then the original but with a bit of handwork it squeezes on just fine. No tearing whatsoever.

Here is the link for future reference. Its actually used in retro volkswagens so hopefully avaliability should remain good:

Fuel filler neck hose 185 x 48 mm. Paruzzi number 3937. N90123501 / 311201219A

Fuel filler neck hose 185 x 48 mm. Easy to order at Paruzzi classic Volkswagen supplies via Paruzzi number: 3937, Volkswagen number N90123501,311201219A

www.paruzzi.com

VW part no's:

N90123501​

311201219A​

Do keep in mind that for the fillernecks with the flexible bits (e.g some 4x4's) there are still the proper parts avaliable. Just not for the all metal neck I have.

Thank you all so much for your help and please, feel free to use this thread now or later for any questions or info in regards to (rare) MK1 Panda fuel parts