Technical Front tyre wear on inner edges

[306maxi]

Folks who've paid list for a TwinAir with £2k of options can likely afford it, and will probably have traded it in by then anyway. The people I really worry for are those who've scrimped & stretched to buy a used 500 - this could be an expensive car to own in years 3-6, especially for those who choose to use their main dealer for servicing and repairs. At current forecourt prices, I think a secondhand 500 is actually one of the worst buys out there as even the cheapest 3yr old car will cost you £££ more than a new Panda.

I think the part in bold is the important bit.

Any car is expensive when you take it to a dealer who are going to fit expensive parts which are going to fail again in 2-3 years because of the fact that they're made out of cheese. FeBi who are owned by Bilstein and Lemforder who are owned by ZF, both make replacement arms for the Panda for instance and Bilstein and ZF are both reputable companies who can only be better than OCAP (the OEM supplier for Fiat's suspension parts I believe)

Their website seems to have been designed by someone back in 1998 and never changed in terms of design since then which doesn't exactly portray the image of a company who cares http://www.ocap.it/home.asp

 

[trackdayqueen]

Exactly. As I've said before, I'm planning to put some Bilstein coilovers on the 500 when the standard dampers go and I'll be taking it to Demon Tweeks who of course specialise in setting up race/rally cars to get them put on or at the very least to get an full geometry done. I wonder if camber/toe shims will work fine on the 500/panda? Would be a shame to spend £600 or so on a good set of coilovers and be limited to just playing with the front geometry.

Good idea. May be even better if you know people who rally, ask them where they get their alignment done etc, because I'll be sure there is someone who's really good, though like you say they do a fair bit of it, so could be a good option.

Was pondering if it was worth a trip myself to DT as it's not a million miles away. Checked their site and they don't do any AE86 specific parts which is a shame.

 

[trackdayqueen]

Mind you, I could do with setting up the geo too. I think I'm going to try and get in touch with an old friend and see if he still has his alignment gear. Would be fab to be able to do it myself.

 

[Caravadossi]

How could I possibly supply any suporting evidence? The car just feels better and why would I say so if it didn't. These economy tyres are wearing much better as well. Please keep you comments in the positive rather than trying to score a point or two for some reason - it puts contributors off making postings as well.

The Emporer’s new tyres perhaps – not only `secret’ or `anonymous’ but invisible to all lower mortals in the fiatforum? Surely the brand/model/etc.etc. is there cloaked on screen such that only the truly gifted can see it.

Did they not cover it at your school? First, make your answer – & second, submit your supporting evidence.

If you ever visit planet Earth – you’ll discover that many forum members either now or in the past (moi included) have auto industry experience. Where bold ideas go through prosecution, defence & cross-examination processes. For example, where parts proposed for the supply chain have to pass design office examination & laboratory testing before being put forward for consideration as an `approved’ unit.

I’m intrigued, it’s 2011 - what work have you been in to avoid (or evade) such quality controls?

Clearly your judgement is clouded by your experience with other components that have contributed to tyre devaluation and thro no tyre defect in isolation. The sum of your fears leads you to suppose that trend will continue.

Is there any truth in the rumour that the video tapes of Osama Bin Laden included one where he was viewing the fiatforum? When faced with yet another `product review’ without supporting evidence he was heard to plead “Somebody shoot me!”

 

[306maxi]

The Emporer’s new tyres perhaps – not only `secret’ or `anonymous’ but invisible to all lower mortals in the fiatforum? Surely the brand/model/etc.etc. is there cloaked on screen such that only the truly gifted can see it.

Did they not cover it at your school? First, make your answer – & second, submit your supporting evidence.

If you ever visit planet Earth – you’ll discover that many forum members either now or in the past (moi included) have auto industry experience. Where bold ideas go through prosecution, defence & cross-examination processes. For example, where parts proposed for the supply chain have to pass design office examination & laboratory testing before being put forward for consideration as an `approved’ unit.

I’m intrigued, it’s 2011 - what work have you been in to avoid (or evade) such quality controls?

Clearly your judgement is clouded by your experience with other components that have contributed to tyre devaluation and thro no tyre defect in isolation. The sum of your fears leads you to suppose that trend will continue.

Is there any truth in the rumour that the video tapes of Osama Bin Laden included one where he was viewing the fiatforum? When faced with yet another `product review’ without supporting evidence he was heard to plead “Somebody shoot me!”

Any particular reason you've chosen to be an arse or does it just come naturally?

I can recall at least one other person who owned a non-100hp Panda who reported better and more even tyre wear on cheaper tyres, Fulda's I think they were.

Macmuckle, any chance of telling people which brand and name the tyres were?

 

[Caravadossi]

Any particular reason you've chosen to be an arse or does it just come naturally?

I can recall at least one other person who owned a non-100hp Panda who reported better and more even tyre wear on cheaper tyres, Fulda's I think they were.

Macmuckle, any chance of telling people which brand and name the tyres were?

You’ve failed to notice the “particular reason”?

You’re arguing a sample size of … “one” … is significant?

You’re arguing a Fulda is a budget tyre?

Somebody shoot me!

.

 

[306maxi]

You’ve failed to notice the “particular reason”?

You’re arguing a sample size of … “one” … is significant?

You’re arguing a Fulda is a budget tyre?

Somebody shoot me!

.

I was being polite when I said I failed to see why you were being an arse.

To me anything that's not a Michelin, Pirelli, Conti, Bridgestone or similar is a budget brand. Fulda's are of course midrange in most people's books.

I never said a sample size of one was significant, but a sample size of 10 or a 100 starts with one doesn't it?

You could just back down and apologise for your behaviour but feel free to continue on and dig a bigger hole.

 

[macmuckle]

Any particular reason you've chosen to be an arse or does it just come naturally?

I can recall at least one other person who owned a non-100hp Panda who reported better and more even tyre wear on cheaper tyres, Fulda's I think they were.

Macmuckle, any chance of telling people which brand and name the tyres were?

hello again all, yes certainly can - they are DEESTONE 155 T 13.

What an odd kind reply from caravadossi - as I say again, just the kind of comment that can put people of posting. For info, I've owned 12 Fiats and this - my Panda Dynamic - is the first I've put budget tyres on.

 

[306maxi]

Interesting. Personally I'd never fit budget tyres myself. My next tyres will probably be Bridgestone's, Michelin's or Dunlop's based on what's available at the moment.

Does make me wonder if there isn't something slightly strange possibly going on with the tyres themselves....

 

[Caravadossi]

... You could just back down and apologise for your behaviour ...

???

You’ve more chance of being struck by lightning. But thanks for your interesting comments – I wasted no time in reading them.

You could foxtrot off and tutor your chum in coming-up with supporting evidence of a budget tyre that `improves’ on a Conti. But I’d want to see more than a sheet of arse paper on the results. If you find one – I’ll sing Waltzing Matilda bare-arsed in the Millenium Stadium while being flogged by Katherine Jenkins (mmMM).

Clearly the blokes bent (more than?) his landing gear - & any tyres will devalue if that’s not corrected. Worn Conti’s after 8.5K mls is an `effect’ of his problems & not the `cause.’

The previous owner of my Prestigio 1.9/16v 150HP had a full laser alignment when fitting 4x new Conti SC3 225/45R18 tyres. Consequently the front pair were replaced after 19.4K mls - the rear pair switched to the front, & gone on to cover 25K mls (19.4+5.6). Given the history of previous tyres, & the reputation of the Croma for tyre devaluation - I very much doubt that mileage would have been achieved without the laser alignment.

 

[306maxi]

???

You’ve more chance of being struck by lightning. But thanks for your interesting comments – I wasted no time in reading them.

You could foxtrot off and tutor your chum in coming-up with supporting evidence of a budget tyre that `improves’ on a Conti. But I’d want to see more than a sheet of arse paper on the results. If you find one – I’ll sing Waltzing Matilda bare-arsed in the Millenium Stadium while being flogged by Katherine Jenkins (mmMM).

Clearly the blokes bent (more than?) his landing gear - & any tyres will devalue if that’s not corrected. Worn Conti’s after 8.5K mls is an `effect’ of his problems & not the `cause.’

The previous owner of my Prestigio 1.9/16v 150HP had a full laser alignment when fitting 4x new Conti SC3 225/45R18 tyres. Consequently the front pair were replaced after 19.4K mls - the rear pair switched to the front, & gone on to cover 25K mls (19.4+5.6). Given the history of previous tyres, & the reputation of the Croma for tyre devaluation - I very much doubt that mileage would have been achieved without the laser alignment.

Whatever, you've proved what kind of a person you are.

If not for the fact that a couple of other people that I've seen have said that they've had better results with cheapy tyres on the Panda than with Conti EcoContact's then I'd probably agree with you, but macmuckle has posted is what he's experienced.....

I've had Conti's on my now gone 406 and there are a pair on the back of the wifes Subaru and they're good tyres. Personally I wouldn't put deestone's on my car either, but having had an amazingly bad set of Pirelli's I don't feel you can simply say that because they're Conti's, that the EcoContact's aren't possibly part of the problem.

Forums are places where people share experiences, we don't need to agree with everyone, but your rudeness towards someone who is simply sharing their experience is unacceptable.

 

[Caravadossi]

If you can’t handle counter claims & cross-examination then you shouldn’t be in the circus. Bold statements such as …

“new budget tyres … improved ride, grip and noise over the original Continental’s”

“The car just feels better and … economy tyres are wearing much better”

“a couple of other people that I've seen have said that they've had better results with cheapy tyres on the Panda than with Conti”
… with no supporting argument have no value.

What’s next? … `my dad’s got a better car than your FIAT – but I’m not telling you what it is!’ ?

How do you propose to prosecute your view that out of a production batch of Conti EC tyres, that both front tyres fitted to this particular car were “possibly” defective on the inside edge? … and it doesn’t end there, what about the next pair?

And what do you suppose the defence will counter with ? - given Mac has already submitted that “the suspension system has let me down” … & the “cost” (or effect) in part of that was a front pair of tyres degraded (such that they failed MoT testing) after 12.3K mls … & the replacement pair degraded after a further 8.5K mls.

 

[306maxi]

If you can’t handle counter claims & cross-examination then you shouldn’t be in the circus. Bold statements such as …

“new budget tyres … improved ride, grip and noise over the original Continental’s”

“The car just feels better and … economy tyres are wearing much better”

“a couple of other people that I've seen have said that they've had better results with cheapy tyres on the Panda than with Conti”
… with no supporting argument have no value.

What’s next? … `my dad’s got a better car than your FIAT – but I’m not telling you what it is!’ ?

How do you propose to prosecute your view that out of a production batch of Conti EC tyres, that both front tyres fitted to this particular car were “possibly” defective on the inside edge? … and it doesn’t end there, what about the next pair?

And what do you suppose the defence will counter with ? - given Mac has already submitted that “the suspension system has let me down” … & the “cost” (or effect) in part of that was a front pair of tyres degraded (such that they failed MoT testing) after 12.3K mls … & the replacement pair degraded after a further 8.5K mls.

What is this? The freaking Spanish Inquisition?

Get over yourself, the guy offered an opinion, you don't need to take it as fact. This is a discussion forum for people to share experience, how does one quantify in a scientific way that one tyre is better than another when everyone drives differently and there is no test equipment or placebo type tests?

Keep digging though!

 

[LeanMeanRacing]

What was the original thread about again?!

 

[306maxi]

What was the original thread about again?!

I thought this was the room to come to if you wanted to slag someone elses opinions off?

 

[paul100hp]

What was the original thread about again?!

I think it was something to do with tyres, but I am more interested in whether Caravadossi is a judge, a solicitor or if he has escaped from somewhere. Or maybe I am just concerned that i dont have a clue what he is gong on about. Oh how i wish i spent more time at school.

 

[306maxi]

I think it was something to do with tyres, but I am more interested in whether Caravadossi is a judge, a solicitor or if he has escaped from somewhere. Or maybe I am just concerned that i dont have a clue what he is gong on about. Oh how i wish i spent more time at school.

Lies! You don't even have any proof that the person posting on this forum is even Caravadossi!!!!! LIES LIES I TELL YOU!!!! Show me the proof

 

[paul100hp]

Lies! You don't even have any proof that the person posting on this forum is even Caravadossi!!!!! LIES LIES I TELL YOU!!!! Show me the proof

The bloke down the pub who sold me some 100 watt light bulbs said it was. That's good enough for me, and i think you will find that will stand up in any court in the country.

 

[XPander]

Sorry I disappeared but we changed over to BT Broadband through the week and our e-mail addresses all changed and I couldn't log-in.

Anyway I phoned Fiat UK direct to see where we stood and got a phonecall back from them about the tyre wear, and about how we were treated by dealer.
The guy I spoke to from Fiat UK denies there is a fault with Pandas in general, but I wasn't saying that, and all he could go on is what the dealer told him about the tyres unusual wear. I gave him our side of the story, the facile exuses given to my wife and me when I phoned the dealer. Told him that other people like some on here had reported the same problem which seems recurring and that others had been given same reasons for pulling to left, "the camber of the road". Unfortunately he wasn't a technical guy so didn't really understand what was going on. He did say that the car's tracking would be checked for free and would be rectified for free if a warranty fault but my wife would have to pay if not. I can guess the answer to that.
As yet, due to work commitments my wife has not been able to take the car to be independently checked but will before taking it back to dealer to be looked at.

On a side note does anyone know if the warranty is invalidated if the car is not taken to a Fiat dealer for it's servicing? My wife thinks that but I'm not sure. As you will have gathered I'd rather not give this dealership the business as I don't trust them.

 

[Geddes]

On a side note does anyone know if the warranty is invalidated if the car is not taken to a Fiat dealer for it's servicing? My wife thinks that but I'm not sure. As you will have gathered I'd rather not give this dealership the business as I don't trust them.

You can take your car to any VAT registered garage and still keep the warranty. Just make sure you get receipts to prove original or equivalent quality parts have been used. Just having the stamp in the service book might not be enough for a warranty claim.

FWIW my Panda wore out its front tyres at 12K because the tracking was out too.