Technical Fiat Ducato 2.2 Pilot Injection learn PROBLEM

[Pawelpower]

Hi
My 2008 Ducato with the 2.2jtd doesnt work
It brings out white smoke and work like a tractor
Fail codes are
P1304 - Pilot injection learn
P1305 - Fuel pressure
P1306 - Fuel pressure

I try to learn the injection with AlfaOBD but the engine dont even rev up
Did you got any advices for me?

 

[Bartek]

Check rail pressure

 

[Pawelpower]

The rail presure is about 280-315
I try to learn it with MultiecuSan and it show not correct conditions to start process but the engin is over 70 degre

 

[nik233]

The rail presure is about 280-315
I try to learn it with MultiecuSan and it show not correct conditions to start process but the engin is over 70 degre

Hi, did you ever sort this out? I've got the same problem.

 

[kandilx]

Hi i have same situation did you fix it?

 

[bugsymike]

Hi i have same situation did you fix it?

Generally speaking if a diesel is throwing out white smoke and hard to start on a cold day especially, it is for one of two reasons.
1/ Cold start device not working, usually heater plugs, one or more failed or not getting power to them.
2/ Diesels are also known as CI engines, which stands for Compression Ignition engines. In other words the air inside the engine combustion chamber has to get hot enough for when the diesel fuel is injected it ignites and fires the engine. So if cylinder compressions are low for what ever reason then the engine will either not start or be very hard to start.
You can prove these points by getting someone to turn the ignition whilst you "sniff" the white smoke coming from the exhaust pipe, if it smells of unburnt fuel/diesel then you have the answer. Probably not advised to take too long deciding what the smell is. Also not inside a garage !!!

 

[kandilx]

Generally speaking if a diesel is throwing out white smoke and hard to start on a cold day especially, it is for one of two reasons.
1/ Cold start device not working, usually heater plugs, one or more failed or not getting power to them.
2/ Diesels are also known as CI engines, which stands for Compression Ignition engines. In other words the air inside the engine combustion chamber has to get hot enough for when the diesel fuel is injected it ignites and fires the engine. So if cylinder compressions are low for what ever reason then the engine will either not start or be very hard to start.
You can prove these points by getting someone to turn the ignition whilst you "sniff" the white smoke coming from the exhaust pipe, if it smells of unburnt fuel/diesel then you have the answer. Probably not advised to take too long deciding what the smell is. Also not inside a garage !!!

Thanks for the help, actually my case is a little different, i have the 1304,1305and 1306 error codes which i tried to clear and tried pump learn, without sucess, my van starts fine and drive ok but only in limp mode, i made my research and i know that i should start by pump learn or high pressure pump replacement in alfa obd i tried to do it many times without sucess i tell that the process completed but actually nothing happened later still the same error
I tried to change and scv and still same results!

 

[Christiani00]

Good morning, I have the same problem, my case is that it does not start normally only with self-starting spray, any solution?

 

[bugsymike]

Don't know if this helps, but may be worth checking from one of my posts.
Note since this I fitted the pump, though only run up at home for the moment, the error codes have gone, engine runs much better and most of the rattle is improved.:-
"Does that make it a Ford Puma engine series, any help available from that direction?
In a slightly different direction, does it have a hand primer for the fuel filter? I have just acquired a 2010 Fiat Scudo 2 litre (which I believe is a similar deritive also used in Peugeots) with a top end? rattle and misfire.
I found by squeezing the primer the noise and misfire went away, I am currently pursuing the direction that the High Pressure Siemens Injector pump low pressure side is used to "suck" the fuel from the tank in absence of a electric pump in the fuel tank. On replacing the fuel filter element I found fine shiny metal particles which I believe are shaved off the "suction " aluminium housing by the vanes in the low pressure side of the High pressure injector pump.
The logic behind my theory is some years ago at commercial van auctions people were avoiding the Ford Transits with the early version of the same engine due to premature Injector pump failure.
I am currently waiting for a s/h injector pump to try.
I am not a fan of using the high pressure pump to "suck" fuel all the way from the tank rather than a electric pump in tank as some years ago I had a 03 1868cc? Doblo non turbo fitted with a Lucas Epic fuel injector pump using the same principle pre Common Rail. It had been to other garages and Diagnostic centres unsuccessfully so I bought it for £300 to play with, I like thinking outside of the box and got it running by placing a can of diesel on the wing and feeding fuel directly down to the Lucas Epic fuel pump.
This helped me to trace the fault to a air leak at the plastic fuel pipe connection at the tank, which I fixed with a length of rubber fuel hose and clips rather than the £200 for a new Fiat fuel line at the time. Had the vacuum side been supplied with low pressure fuel from a pump in the tank the leaking connector would have been more obvious."

 

[Christiani00]

YES, my client's vehicle is a Fiat Ducato 2.2 multijet PUMA engine, my theory is that it does not indicate the correct fuel level (it has been checked) the electric auxiliary pump does work, I think it has run out of fuel and has tried to start Infinite times the high pump rotates if fuel has broken down, these days I will take the high pump along with the injectors to a specialist, the injection rail as well.
Greeting

 

[bugsymike]

YES, my client's vehicle is a Fiat Ducato 2.2 multijet PUMA engine, my theory is that it does not indicate the correct fuel level (it has been checked) the electric auxiliary pump does work, I think it has run out of fuel and has tried to start Infinite times the high pump rotates if fuel has broken down, these days I will take the high pump along with the injectors to a specialist, the injection rail as well.
Greeting

Have you found any fine metal particles in the fuel filter, this one has a paper element so easy to see in the bottom of the container, if yours is the square plastic sealed unit it is hard to see any debris/metal particles indicating pump failure.

 

[Christiani00]

Have you found any fine metal particles in the fuel filter, this one has a paper element so easy to see in the bottom of the container, if yours is the square plastic sealed unit it is hard to see any debris/metal particles indicating pump failure.

It has a long round filter, inside there is a round paper cartridge. I have not seen any metal particles, however, it has been observed in the pump pressure regulator.

 

[bugsymike]

It has a long round filter, inside there is a round paper cartridge. I have not seen any metal particles, however, it has been observed in the pump pressure regulator.

Have run engine up with S/H high pressure pump, it definately runs smoother, although to me the light rattle is improved it is still there after a rev, then over run (accelerator off) .
There was a thread on a Citroen (french car forum) from 2016 with same engine and symptoms, most of his fuel system was replaced, then a garage told him it was the exhaust cam chain drive being 16 valve.
I am not disregarding that, however to me the noise on this one is around the injectors and pump, also by squeezing the hand primer I get get the noise top go away which I would have thought would rule out the chain as a cause of rattle.

 

[Christiani00]

The problem was that water had entered through the connectors inside the engine control unit. When it was removed it was full of water, little voltage reached the injectors around 3v, we changed it and it works correctly.