General Fiat 500 EV conversion

[smart51]

Part of the big weight increase came as a result of Euro NCAP. They unilaterally changed crash testing from 30 to 40 MPH and were very public with their results. All car companied changed their cars to score well, increasing their weight. Part of it is the idea that bigger is better. Each new generation of a car is bigger than the last. Superminis used to be 3.5m long. They're now 4m - the size of medium family cars a few decades ago. The remainder has come as a perverse result of engine efficiency. Both petrol and diesel engines are much more efficient than those from the 80s or earlier. Manufacturers have chosen to keep engine sizes the same, meaning cars have more power than they used to have. Some of that has allowed faster acceleration but most of it was used up dragging round extra weight, and extra projected frontal area - cars are wider and taller than they used to be.

I still think there's space in the market for a small, lightweight, efficient and simple car. The trouble is that it will be seen as basic or cheapskate unless it is aggressively marketed as lithe and sporty. Perception of value is an odd thing. Making something twice as big only adds 10% or 20% to the cost, but people see it as 100% better value. So sizes bloat.

 

[bugsymike]

I still think there's space in the market for a small, lightweight, efficient and simple car.

I agree with you, they could make a smaller engine still, but very much more economical.
Those original vehicles I mentioned were less than 40BHP but could still match speed limits, so something that output but with the efficiency that modern technology provides would probably exceed 100mpg regularly with corresponding low emissions.
Trouble is Governments and oil giants etc. would have to find other ways of emptying our pockets.

 

[Toshi 975]

Basic and cheapskate, yes please
With that efficiency that Bugsy mentions and a design with an eye on low maintenance and recycling.
A modern 2CV or 500 in the true spirit would be winners for me.

 

[Bigvtwin996]

I think BMW anounced they were no longer going ahead with future EV cars, and anounced their Hydrogen engines could be retro fitted to older cars

 

[fiat500]

I think BMW anounced they were no longer going ahead with future EV cars, and anounced their Hydrogen engines could be retro fitted to older cars

Still wouldn't smell right.

 

[bugsymike]

Still wouldn't smell right.

How about if they used methane instead of Hydrogen.

 

[smart51]

Hydrogen engines are not a great idea. Hydrogen is not an energy source, it is an energy store. You have to create it using electricity. A hydrogen fuel cell is about 50% efficient. A hydrogen engine about 40%. Lithium batteries are over 95% efficient. So straight away, your hydrogen engine uses twice as much electricity as a battery car.

 

[bugsymike]

Hydrogen engines are not a great idea. Hydrogen is not an energy source, it is an energy store. You have to create it using electricity. A hydrogen fuel cell is about 50% efficient. A hydrogen engine about 40%. Lithium batteries are over 95% efficient. So straight away, your hydrogen engine uses twice as much electricity as a battery car.

My thoughts are whether Hydrogen, EV or ICE vehicles they should sink or swim on their own merits without Government interference.

 

[Bigvtwin996]

Hydrogen engines are not a great idea. Hydrogen is not an energy source, it is an energy store. You have to create it using electricity. A hydrogen fuel cell is about 50% efficient. A hydrogen engine about 40%. Lithium batteries are over 95% efficient. So straight away, your hydrogen engine uses twice as much electricity as a battery car.

but where does the electricity come from to fill the lithium batteries?
So instead of saying they are 95% efficient how efficient is the source that is the electicity?
A mates son and his inlaws own and run anumber of wind farms in Scotland....
At night there is very little power demand, so what should they do turn off the turbines?
No they use it to generate Hydroen, he said not much else they can do with it...
So even with all these ev cars charging batteries they still have excess...

 

[smart51]

but where does the electricity come from to fill the lithium batteries?
So instead of saying they are 95% efficient how efficient is the source that is the electicity?
A mates son and his inlaws own and run anumber of wind farms in Scotland....
At night there is very little power demand, so what should they do turn off the turbines?
No they use it to generate Hydroen, he said not much else they can do with it...
So even with all these ev cars charging batteries they still have excess...

The electricity to charge the batteries comes from the same place as the electricity to produce the hydrogen. The efficiency figures are the same for both. It is the amount of power you get out compared to what you put in. It is the correct way to quote it.

Electricity demand at night is about half that of the day time, same as it was when we made electricity using coal. Only now we have a large amount of solar power to produce some of the extra demand during the day.

You can turn the power generated by wind turbines up and down very quickly. We use that to cope with rapid changes in demand. We used to have a coal fired power station just idling, ready to turn up for 5 minutes while everyone boiled a kettle while coronation street was on. It was burning coal the whole time to maintain steam pressure, just to have the turbines spinning but at idle. Turning wind turbines up and down is way more efficient.

You could keep gas fired power stations running at full power over night and use the power to manufacture hydrogen. Or you could throttle them back to save gas. Or else get people to charge their batteries over night. You'd have to work out if the cost of the gas fired electricity is cheap enough that you can stomach half efficiency in use.

 

[Bigvtwin996]

well here is a possible solution.. hands up who actually remembers the episode (let alone how special is the car)