General Fiat 500 EV conversion

[Ant Knox]

If one converts a 'Classic' to EV, the ORIGINAL engine mounts have to be retained----just think of the 'fun' that the guy who put an electric motor into a Ferrari 'Testarossa' had! He had to build a complete sub-frame that bolted onto the original Ferrari engine engine mounts, into which the electric motor and transmission system were then fitted into. On top of that, as a 'classic' Mini owner found, to his great cost, one is NOT allowed to convert them back to I.C. if ANY additional holes have been created (to run wiring looms etc through), and just to make it even more complicated (in the UK), if you DO convert an I.C. powered car/van to EV, there is a very good chance that if you have created any 'passage'holes that were not part of the vehicle's original construction, when the vehicle is presented to the "Vehicle Inspection" depot, the Inspector will say "NO!"

I wasn't aware of this; thanks.
The Welsh firm converting cars have done a few youtube 'interviews' and I have to say, i'm not impressed by the company's ethos; their argument for many of the conversions is that the original IC engines were "rubbish" or "unreliable" and that criticism seemed to extend to the sublime Ferrari flat-12 of the Testarossa, which is clearly nonsense. I think the conversions appeal to a very specific type of classic car owner; one with a lot of money, but little mechanical sympathy...which is a shame.

 

[the hobbler]

The only conversions I did were petrol to diesel and made sense to me as long as a "grunty" turbo diesel.
Around 50 years ago I knew a banger racer locally who fitted a big commercial diesel engine in his Mk 9 Jaguar with success. I am not sure what he did with the gearing as I recall people who fitted old Perkins 4.203 engines to Range Rovers finding top speed drastically reduced, even with overdrive fitted etc.

Firstly, which carburettor have you got on your engine? Is it the Dellorto FRG or the much more normal Weber IMB? For the IMB carb (and I expect the FRG, although I have never seen one of these carbs) to run (seemingly) continually rich it normally boils down to just about 3 things---(1) is the choke going fully off AT THE CARB. Neither of these carbs, technically, have a 'choke'---they both have 'fuel-enrichment devises'. Although you might be pushing the lever down inside the car,is the lever n the side of the catb going fully off? (2) if the carb willidle, but 'chokes' when trying accelerate,check that there is no muck either IN the idle jet or in the idle-jet aperture INSIDE the carb and, (3) check the float---if there is any fuel INSIDE the float (it will 'rattle' if you shake it) then it will sink to the bottom of the float chamber and not shut off the fuel when the float-chamber is full. This last "fault" can be a slow one to develop, especially with brass floats where the sections are soldered together (as most floats were originally)----ethanol in modern fuel just loves to dissolve the solder! This is the reason that a lot of "modern, replacement" floats are now made of plastic (or similar).
L

 

[the hobbler]

Firstly, which carburettor have you got on your engine? Is it the Dellorto FRG or the much more normal Weber IMB? For the IMB carb (and I expect the FRG, although I have never seen one of these carbs) to run (seemingly) continually rich it normally boils down to just about 3 things---(1) is the choke going fully off AT THE CARB. Neither of these carbs, technically, have a 'choke'---they both have 'fuel-enrichment devises'. Although you might be pushing the lever down inside the car,is the lever n the side of the catb going fully off? (2) if the carb willidle, but 'chokes' when trying accelerate,check that there is no muck either IN the idle jet or in the idle-jet aperture INSIDE the carb and, (3) check the float---if there is any fuel INSIDE the float (it will 'rattle' if you shake it) then it will sink to the bottom of the float chamber and not shut off the fuel when the float-chamber is full. This last "fault" can be a slow one to develop, especially with brass floats where the sections are soldered together (as most floats were originally)----ethanol in modern fuel just loves to dissolve the solder! This is the reason that a lot of "modern, replacement" floats are now made of plastic (or similar).
L

Another thing to point out (and not probably related to your problem at all) is that fuel-filter sitting just above the alternator. It is not a very wise move to have a plastic fuel-filter, in a hot engine bay sitting just about over an electrical unit---if that filter was, for any reason, to leak, it would leak fuel onto the alternator---good for starting a fire! You do NOT need a 4th filter in the system---you already have 3---1 in the tank-unit, another in the top of the fuel-pump, and the 3rd in the top of the carburettor----PLEASE REMOVE IT!

 

[pittsburgcat]

Firstly, which carburettor have you got on your engine? Is it the Dellorto FRG or the much more normal Weber IMB? For the IMB carb (and I expect the FRG, although I have never seen one of these carbs) to run (seemingly) continually rich it normally boils down to just about 3 things---(1) is the choke going fully off AT THE CARB. Neither of these carbs, technically, have a 'choke'---they both have 'fuel-enrichment devises'. Although you might be pushing the lever down inside the car,is the lever n the side of the catb going fully off? (2) if the carb willidle, but 'chokes' when trying accelerate,check that there is no muck either IN the idle jet or in the idle-jet aperture INSIDE the carb and, (3) check the float---if there is any fuel INSIDE the float (it will 'rattle' if you shake it) then it will sink to the bottom of the float chamber and not shut off the fuel when the float-chamber is full. This last "fault" can be a slow one to develop, especially with brass floats where the sections are soldered together (as most floats were originally)----ethanol in modern fuel just loves to dissolve the solder! This is the reason that a lot of "modern, replacement" floats are now made of plastic (or similar).
L

assume this was meant for me. i pulled the original carb off and tore it apart. no issues with needle or trash around it, float functioned normally...in fact i didnt' find anything wrong with it but since a new one was so cheap i decided to just put a new one on. went with the weber. nothing changed in the way it ran. the choke is also functioning normally. again the car was running fine and during a drive we turned a corner and it just would not accelerate without trying to die. would idle fine. in fact i crippled it back basically at idle. i am convinced now after everything i have done it must be a spark issue. but the only thing left for me to replace is condenser and wires. after that i've pretty much replaced everything i can with new.

 

[bugsymike]

assume this was meant for me. i pulled the original carb off and tore it apart. no issues with needle or trash around it, float functioned normally...in fact i didnt' find anything wrong with it but since a new one was so cheap i decided to just put a new one on. went with the weber. nothing changed in the way it ran. the choke is also functioning normally. again the car was running fine and during a drive we turned a corner and it just would not accelerate without trying to die. would idle fine. in fact i crippled it back basically at idle. i am convinced now after everything i have done it must be a spark issue. but the only thing left for me to replace is condenser and wires. after that i've pretty much replaced everything i can with new.

When these and most vehicles with contact points and condensors etc. were common on the road, every time I serviced them I always fitted new contact points, correctly gapped and lubed on the cam etc. Importantly I always inspected the old contact points for any sign of "blue and pitted" surfaces area, if so that meant I fitted a condensor as well.
All things being equal along with the rest of the work I did in a full service those vehicles were reliable and gave no problems between services at roughly 6000 mile intervals.
On the fuel side at the same time I cleaned any brass gauze filter elements in mechanical pumps and at carb inlets if applicable.
In those days there were no inline plastic fuel filters required as obviously no need when no fine tolerances injectors etc.
That service was usually for my customers, once a year along with the MOT test, unless they were doing higher mileages.
It was what I called a "full service" taking roughly 3 hours, it included new spark plugs, contact points, air filter, fuel filter if applicable, engine oil and filter, gearbox and axle oils checked and topped up, steering and suspension checked, brake drums removed and shoes and cylinders checked (including dust covers pulled back to monitor condition of brake seals) , where applicable I would adjust engine valve clearances and fit new rocker cover gasket. I would also check all the lights and oil the door locks and hinges plus window runners (takes the strain off window regulators and any electric motors if fitted).
I finished off with a good road test. Any faults I noticed I would contact the customer and if urgent they would invariable give me the go ahead to carry out at the same time. If non urgent I would advise them, so they could budget to have the work done in the future.
I never made lots of money , but I had a loyal customer base many I had known between 20-50 years all by personal recommendation, they knew the quality of work and I knew their cheques wouldn't bounce.

 

[Bigvtwin996]

mmy suggesion would be if you really want to go EV, do the moptor conversion but to keep the weight down just add a small EV battery, then fit a tow bar and add a little trailer with a generator, run cable to charge the batteries and you have a reasonable range..

 

[fiat500]

mmy suggesion would be if you really want to go EV, do the moptor conversion but to keep the weight down just add a small EV battery, then fit a tow bar and add a little trailer with a generator, run cable to charge the batteries and you have a reasonable range..

You would want a lightweight power unit for that generator, so it would probably best to use one with a small, air-cooled engine.

 

[Bigvtwin996]

You would want a lightweight power unit for that generator, so it would probably best to use one with a small, air-cooled engine.

I do believe I once saw a Fiat 500 engine used to power a generator, much like they used VW Engnes... that would be a great solution and keep everything fiat for the purists!!

 

[bugsymike]

You would want a lightweight power unit for that generator, so it would probably best to use one with a small, air-cooled engine.

However for longer range????

 

[Bigvtwin996]

However for longer range????

I do think such a size would be quite restrictive, but if you were to attach a spool of power cable (similar to those spool dog leads) and always reraced yout journey, then leve the power pack at home and simply drive, then when you return the power cable would simply reel itself back in...
Obviously you would need a pretty big spool if you wanted to travel long distances, but think there may be some "Milage" in the solution..

 

[the green vanper]

I've seen a couple of EV conversions of 126's. Batteries were in the engine bay + rear seat + I think also in the front boot (?). But they were lead-acid, probably AGMs, so quite heavy. Lithium is much better, however not ideal (depending on the type). No idea about the range.

 

[bugsymike]

I've seen a couple of EV conversions of 126's. Batteries were in the engine bay + rear seat + I think also in the front boot (?). But they were lead-acid, probably AGMs, so quite heavy. Lithium is much better, however not ideal (depending on the type). No idea about the range.

Like this

 

[Bigvtwin996]

Like this

I think that must be a fairly heavily modified 126 to make it into a forward control pickup
But well done to the creator

 

[bugsymike]

I think that must be a fairly heavily modified 126 to make it into a forward control pickup
But well done to the creator

Specs. 4500kg Unigate float’s 10mph. for comparison.

 

[Bigvtwin996]

Specs. 4500kg Unigate float’s 10mph. for comparison.

I guess that fits in with the uk policy for reducinhg accidents...

 

[bugsymike]

I guess that fits in with the uk policy for reducinhg accidents...

The current crop of "bloated" EV's are heading towards the weight side, we will have to strengthen our roads and bridges soon for them.

 

[smart51]

The current crop of "bloated" EV's are heading towards the weight side, we will have to strengthen our roads and bridges soon for them.

Did you get that opinion from the Daily Mail or somewhere? Electric "super minis" weigh about 1.5 tonnes, which is quite heavy. Range Rovers range from 2.5 to 2.9 tonnes. It's SUVs that damage the roads, not EVs.

 

[bugsymike]

Did you get that opinion from the Daily Mail or somewhere? Electric "super minis" weigh about 1.5 tonnes, which is quite heavy. Range Rovers range from 2.5 to 2.9 tonnes. It's SUVs that damage the roads, not EVs.

Just online, average EVs 1.5 to 2 tonne.
Apparently a full size Hummer is over 4 tonne and it's battery alone is 1.3 tonne of that, or the weight of two classic Minis.
My point really is cars in general have got massive, the Mini's , Ford Anglias, Fiat 500s etc of my youth all could transport a average size family economically and in most cases exceed the National Speed limit.
I think manufacturers have bulked out their models to justify the price, so people think they are getting more for their money.
The garages of many houses built in the late 50s, if you could even manage to get your car in you wouldn't be able to open the doors to get out. Old car parks are having to reduce their occupancy, how many people find cars have been damaged in supermarket car parks by other peoples doors.

 

[fiat500]

Just online, average EVs 1.5 to 2 tonne.
Apparently a full size Hummer is over 4 tonne and it's battery alone is 1.3 tonne of that, or the weight of two classic Minis.
My point really is cars in general have got massive, the Mini's , Ford Anglias, Fiat 500s etc of my youth all could transport a average size family economically and in most cases exceed the National Speed limit.
I think manufacturers have bulked out their models to justify the price, so people think they are getting more for their money.
The garages of many houses built in the late 50s, if you could even manage to get your car in you wouldn't be able to open the doors to get out. Old car parks are having to reduce their occupancy, how many people find cars have been damaged in supermarket car parks by other peoples doors.

These massive vehicles fly in the face of the principles that have been guiding public policy for decades. These have supposedly steered us towards making economical use of the world's finite resources whilst simultaneously creating fewer emissions and other waste products that damage the environment and our health. But, in motor vehicles that has been alongside a parallel policy of designing vehicles that are safer to drive, and less likely to harm occupants and those who are collaterally involved in accidents with them.
Hence, we actually end up with, as you have described, huge and heavy cars that use large quantities of rare and expensive materials that were not needed previously, in addition to increased quantities of all of the regular materials that are used in cars.
When I get into my little Fiat, or even into my modern Fiat 500, it is a great antidote to the frustration I feel about the double-speak of some politicians and some environmentalists.

 

[bugsymike]

These massive vehicles fly in the face of the principles that have been guiding public policy for decades. These have supposedly steered us towards making economical use of the world's finite resources whilst simultaneously creating fewer emissions and other waste products that damage the environment and our health. But, in motor vehicles that has been alongside a parallel policy of designing vehicles that are safer to drive, and less likely to harm occupants and those who are collaterally involved in accidents with them.
Hence, we actually end up with, as you have described, huge and heavy cars that use large quantities of rare and expensive materials that were not needed previously, in addition to increased quantities of all of the regular materials that are used in cars.
When I get into my little Fiat, or even into my modern Fiat 500, it is a great antidote to the frustration I feel about the double-speak of some politicians and some environmentalists.

My thoughts are that while many have noble ideals regarding the environment , the reality is that the result has the opposite affect.