Technical Engine boring

[RuSZ]

Managed to source a spare 1.2 8v motor thats done 30k. its the same age as the one in my 55plate 8v. but mines done 56k. AND IT WAS FREE!

Was planing on doing some work on the spare engine such as balancing, cam's, values and changing the sparks/gasket/HT's

But..

Is it possible to bore out the engine, and what would be a resonable about.

I was thinking on going from the current 1242cc to possibley a 1342cc or similar.

This in my eyes more fun that just buying a larger engine. and seeing what is possible.

at the end of the day the block and loom all came for free so thats where the idea of boring the engine instead of buying a 1.4 came from. plus it would be easier to swap my 1.2 for this block at the end of the project i presume.

 

[MadMan0]

Personally i wouldn't bore it out as the cylinder walls are pritty thin as it is - not as thin as they can go, but thin.

Some Other things you could do are - larger inlet valves and casting your self a new exhaust manifold for twin turbo? - I was going to attempt a 4 turbo mod on a 91 panda, but turns out i dont have enough room for any larger turbo

- Adding a turbo you will have to change to compression ratios - other wise you could over strain the engine block / cylinder head & bolts would make a pritty nice BANG and some flames under the bonnet but would do much good

Lighter pistons & cam weights with a lighter flywheel would also be cool

 

[RuSZ]

Personally i wouldn't bore it out as the cylinder walls are pritty thin as it is - not as thin as they can go, but thin.

Some Other things you could do are - larger inlet valves and casting your self a new exhaust manifold for twin turbo? - I was going to attempt a 4 turbo mod on a 91 panda, but turns out i dont have enough room for any larger turbo

- Adding a turbo you will have to change to compression ratios - other wise you could over strain the engine block / cylinder head & bolts would make a pritty nice BANG and some flames under the bonnet but would do much good

Lighter pistons & cam weights with a lighter flywheel would also be cool

Ok, well haven't had the rocker cover off yet, so not seen the linings. need to check the gasket as its come from a scrapped car not 100% sure on its condition.

so will definitely be skimming the head just for the sake of cleaning it up. will look it changing the inlet valves and the manifold. was thinking about the flywheel.

Ive head that the 1.2 8v is good for 9000rpm too if i'm right. but all the power is in the mid range.

so lightening the pistons and the weights could open up the rev range i presume.

 

[MadMan0]

so lightening the pistons and the weights could open up the rev range i presume.

Yh, lighter internal will mean less stress on the rods so you should get a wider rev range - you should also be able to climb up the rev quicker

Along with a good remap you could have a little rocket

 

[Ziggy122]

yea the engine is meant to be good for upto 9000rpm but limited from 6000-6250-6500 ish

The ECU dont tho - hence why the rev limiter kicks in - something must not cope like an injector too much
Or the Engine gets a lil hot with no power increase

ziggy

 

[MadMan0]

yea the engine is meant to be good for upto 9000rpm but limited from 6000-6250-6500 ish

The ECU dont tho - hence why the rev limiter kicks in - something must not cope like an injector too much
Or the Engine gets a lil hot with no power increase

ziggy

Cars tend to have a larger "safety factor". air planes have around 1.05-1.5
cars tend to start around 2 so the rev limiter will proberly be something in line with the safety factor

- mine just stops climbing - injector fault so i guess my rev limiter doesn't work - or its missing (Mk1)

An uprated injector should help if you get this issue - just remember larger is not always better

 

[JustAndy]

Challenge: turbo it and get it dropped in before the yorkshire italia meet
haha now go!

 

[RuSZ]

Challenge: turbo it and get it dropped in before the yorkshire italia meet
haha now go!

Reading and talking to a local fiat garage apparently the oil pump and water pump cant cool or lubricate the engine quick enough after prolonged usage above 7000rmp. so if that can be overcome... the injectors he said should be fine, but might need larger ones from the 1.4 to cope fully.

If would need remapping anyway to go along with the balancing and the lightening i presume, so going along the RPM theory see if i can get the limiter altered to say 8000 or 9000rpm.

But it all depends if i can get a more workable torque range out of it. there's no point moving the rev limit if the torque is still only usable below 5000 rpm

There is no way i can get anything done for Yorkshire Italia. it will be a long term project dong little bits here and there. the main thing to do is get the Head of to check the internals over.

 

[Ziggy122]

to be honest the little engines Torque is all mid Range
There is little at the Top and Bottom
More at top then bottom tho i think

But at 6500rpm you'r not getting good fuel usage as it is - making it a upto 7000 its going make it worse - and it aint going to sound good i dont think
it'll sound like it'll blow

ziggy

 

[RuSZ]

to be honest the little engines Torque is all mid Range
There is little at the Top and Bottom
More at top then bottom tho i think

But at 6500rpm you'r not getting good fuel usage as it is - making it a upto 7000 its going make it worse - and it aint going to sound good i dont think
it'll sound like it'll blow

ziggy

As i said, theres no point in altering it if there is no feasible reason too. Im just wanting to have a bit of fun with the block to see what can be got from it. I realised economy will be gone out of the window. but im want to have a bit of fun with something i got free.

 

[Ziggy122]

As i said, theres no point in altering it if there is no feasible reason too. Im just wanting to have a bit of fun with the block to see what can be got from it. I realised economy will be gone out of the window. but im want to have a bit of fun with something i got free.

By all means - get the Pistons Lightened and balanced
Con-rods done etc

Get the Valves all cleaned up and seated etc

But i'd Keep it standard - just make it lighter and balanced - as that can make all the difference

Ziggy

 

[RuSZ]

By all means - get the Pistons Lightened and balanced
Con-rods done etc

Get the Valves all cleaned up and seated etc

But i'd Keep it standard - just make it lighter and balanced - as that can make all the difference

Ziggy

Well first job is to get the head off the block to check the internals. once thats done will be fully stripped. sending the block and rocker to be acid bathed to clean them.

pistons will be getting lightened and skimmed. inlet valves and manifold will be getting looked at and probably changed for possible turbo mod. similar to that of the 1.2 Sie's. Cam weights will be lightened as well in the process. engine will also be fully balanced.

i think other things to do with it will be lighter flywheel and a 6 speed box from the bravo as mentioned in other threads. hopefully this can cope with increased power and torque. just need to find a suitable clutch.

eventually it will get remaped on RR. and maybe one day a turbo

 

[fingers99]

9000rpm is very silly. You'd have to have a cam that produced power at those rpm. You'd need valve guides that were up to it. You'd need a better induction/exhaust and substantial head work. You'd be sensible to convert to shim under bucket so the valve shims can't be spat out. All in all, very, very expensive.

Assuming MPI, Punto 75 cam, 40mm TB, decent exhaust mani, chip, Panda 45 inlet mani. It's all covered prett well in the Cinq/Sei section.

 

[RuSZ]

9000rpm is very silly. You'd have to have a cam that produced power at those rpm. You'd need valve guides that were up to it. You'd need a better induction/exhaust and substantial head work. You'd be sensible to convert to shim under bucket so the valve shims can't be spat out. All in all, very, very expensive.

Assuming MPI, Punto 75 cam, 40mm TB, decent exhaust mani, chip, Panda 45 inlet mani. It's all covered prett well in the Cinq/Sei section.

The idea of 9000rpm was a theory. Would be stupid and impractical to do, but interesting none the less.

Lightening and balancing is doable.

Yes the 1.2 8v is MPI will be using Cinq as a guide for a majority of the work

 

[fingers99]

My bad. I meant SPI. The theory applies, but look to 1.2 16v for a bigger throttle body (post by kripit details) and re-map rather than chip.

The 1108 can -- in race trim -- run to those kind of revs. Used in F750s. But not for road (or even track day).

 

[Lozzy08]

Wish I had a free spare engine to do some experiments and fun work too haha. Sounds good what you've been talking about. Will be watching

 

[RuSZ]

Wish I had a free spare engine to do some experiments and fun work too haha. Sounds good what you've been talking about. Will be watching

Ive done work on engines before. do a bit on a Beetle 1300 and a Seat Ibiza 1.4, both just helping mates. learning the ropes so to say.

i went down to a scappy the other day and got talking to the bloke. and he mentioned this engine that had been in stock for a year with no one wanting it. went to have a look at it, and instantly recognised it as the 1.2 8v. after a bit of a discussion he just gave it away

he did mention it came from a CAT B write off car. (uneconomical repair. car can be broken for parts.) and the engine was running fine at the point of scrappage.

we will have to see what comes from it. im not expecting a lot, and can see it been a very long term project...

 

[RuSZ]

Had the engine in pieces today...

my god is it in bad condition to say that its only done 30k....

it makes me think i might have been scammed. glad it was free...

took the sump off. and there was a lot of crap and bits in it. which made me wonder what the internals were like.

got the rocker cover off, and it looks like the engine has been running with a lack of oil. cam shaft was worn, valves need replacing and reseating.

i then thought to check the gasket. and guess what..

was blowing between 1 & 2. and out of 3. :bang:

I would take it back to the scrap yard and claim miss selling, but seen as he technically didn't sell it...

just wondering what to do with it, either its a long long long term project at a cost. or to take it to another scrap yard and get it weighed in...

 

[DaveMcT]

Maybe the 30K engine got swapped out of the crashed car before the breaker ever got to it.

Get it weighed in - good used lumps are not megabux.

 

[RuSZ]

Maybe the 30K engine got swapped out of the crashed car before the breaker ever got to it.

Get it weighed in - good used lumps are not megabux.

Thing is, with it been free thats what got me thinking about all the lightening and general improving the engine.

by buying a 1.2 8v engine im defying the point of what i mentioned earlier.

so its either weigh the engine in for cash for general improvement (win win seen as i'll be getting more than i paid)

or work through the problems..