Technical EGR valve problem

[Peter Pick-Up]

Don't take my word for it. Take yours out, go for a drive and post back about whether you're going to go to the bother of refitting it or not.

My understanding is rather than creating power itself it reduces the loss of power caused by an ageing egr. Same result as far as driving it is concerned. And as for your comment about 5bhp, once the egr starts to go and you don't have a plate fitted you'll lose at lot more than that. At one point mine could barely make it up a hill. EGR blanked off and it drove fine.

You didn't read my post above?
First I bought a brandnew EGR, brought nothing.
Than the original Fiat 4 hole gasket, but it didn't do nothing at all for my liking as well.
So at last, I fully closed the EGR, with two solid gaskets ( before and after) and than I went to a chiptuner, and had the EGR removed from the ECU completely.
Happy ever since.

 

[s130]

I think this has to be broken down into 3 distinct camps.

1) original early EGR with no restriction
2) original/later EGR with restrictor plate
3) fully blanked EGR & remapped ECU

1) = crap
2) = very much improved on all counts
3) = 2) with a few plus stars but also possible insurance negatives

Coming back to 2), from my recollection the EGR takeoff is pre turbo. If this is correct then any opening of the EGR valve will reduce pressure/flow to the turbo and the turbo will produce a lower net boost value. Blanking off the EGR path or adding a restrictor will eliminate or reduce this potential net loss of boost. Of course the system will try to compensate in other ways but if the turbo produces less puff then this is very hard if not possible to compensate 100% for.

I'm still trying to mentally trace the EGR path and piping on my Croma so am still not happy about where the EGR path originates (pre or post turbo) and it is too late to open the bonnet or fire up eLearn to get the definitive facts

 

[Peter Pick-Up]

http://www.jtd-performance.com/en/egr-blanks

 

[BrianMcL]

You didn't read my post above?
First I bought a brandnew EGR, brought nothing.
Than the original Fiat 4 hole gasket, but it didn't do nothing at all for my liking as well.
So at last, I fully closed the EGR, with two solid gaskets ( before and after) and than I went to a chiptuner, and had the EGR removed from the ECU completely.
Happy ever since.

Hi Peter, I did read your posts but missed the part where you'd said you'd blanked it off and then had it deleted from the ecu. Probably because as G8rpi says above that's illegal in the UK and an MoT fail if you get caught. And it'll invalidate your insurance as well, at least in the UK, maybe other countries are more relaxed about modifications. Given that the OP is a newbie and was looking for help with a real problem advising them to spend a fair chunk of money to break the law isn't necessarily the best introduction to what's normally a very helpful corner of the internet IMHO.

Getting back to the OP again (assuming they're even still reading) what can we suggest they check or that might be causing the problem?

 

[Peter Pick-Up]

No mot fail at all, nobody can tell if you're blanking and or deleting the EGR.
Our Dutch Mot is the same like yours, no problems without EGR ( I even removed both catalysts on my car...and that's no Mot problem either!!).
It's even more difficult with a working EGR to get an older diesel car passed during Mot, because of the heavy smoke clouds...

 

[s130]

EGR primarily affect NOX levels. Current MOT testing of emissions does not measure NOX.

So blanking the EGR is not MOT detectable. For some engine ECUs blanking EGR will not cause a fault the turn on the EML (engine management light). On the Croma EGR blanking will turn the EML on. I'm not sure how long the duration time wise is before the EML is thrown but you could run the car with EGR blanked and the EML permanently with no problems. However you would have to reset the EGR/ECU fault code just when you park up for your MOT and fingers crossed it will remain off during the MOT.

Technically regarding insurance blanking EGR and/or ECU mods (even if only to EGR) are a vehicle modification/change and if not disclosed to your insurance company you will be uninsured!

This insurance area is where I take great care and personally always check with my insurer and do not cross the line.....even for a go faster stripe.

Post crash insurance assessors now rigorously look for any "get out" avenue and yes they do check ECUs etc. You DO NOT want to be uninsured and I despise anybody who is knowingly uninsured.

 

[BrianMcL]

When the egr's fully blanked the check engine light comes on straightaway. I drove about with mine on whilst I was waiting for my replacement egr valve (from memory a few days I think) and it didn't go out.

From memory I think it took three drives after I'd fitted the bullet hole gasket before the check engine light went out.

From speaking with the diesel mechanics I work with the simplest things to start with when dealing with black smoke are to service the vehicle changing the oil and air filters and check for messages in the ECU, moving on to other things after that if it doesn't fix the problem. With a Croma you also need to tell the car that you've changed the oil as well.

If the dpf was clogged due to not changing the oil or not telling the car that the oil's been changed I'd imagine that it would need to go for a decent run to regenerate the dpf as well.

That doesn't mean there isn't a problem with the egr as well but I'm not convinced it's related to black smoke.

Maybe the OP can come back and let us know how things are going / whether the new egr cured the problem.

 

[albyhf]

On my 1.9 150hp Croma 380.000km I've the restrictor plate from hundred of km and no more problems.

 

[Auger40]

hi wonder if you could help have a Fiat 500 08 plate 1.3 multijet 70,000 miles on clock had egr problems started a few months after buying it cleaned egr ok for a few weeks problem back engine code showing its egr had engine re mapped at a cost of £400 fine for several months then engine light on into limp mode same fault code (this happens every time) went back they said it’s wiring fault took to garage they checked wiring fromecu to egr all fine if car is left I driven for a day or so light goes off then in a coup,e of days of driving comes on again between the garage and remapping place both are saying not their fault blaming each other do we get a new egr do we plate existing one don’t know what to do can you recommend someone who knows thanks

 

[BrianMcL]

hi wonder if you could help have a Fiat 500 08 plate 1.3 multijet 70,000 miles on clock had egr problems started a few months after buying it cleaned egr ok for a few weeks problem back engine code showing its egr had engine re mapped at a cost of £400 fine for several months then engine light on into limp mode same fault code (this happens every time) went back they said it’s wiring fault took to garage they checked wiring fromecu to egr all fine if car is left I driven for a day or so light goes off then in a coup,e of days of driving comes on again between the garage and remapping place both are saying not their fault blaming each other do we get a new egr do we plate existing one don’t know what to do can you recommend someone who knows thanks

Hi,
Starting point with anything egr or dpf related is to make sure that the oil change indicator has been reset. MultiEcuScan (mes) on a laptop will let you check.

If it was happening all the time the next step is to disconnect the maf but in your case I'd probably jump to step 3 which is block the egr and see if that fixes it. The check engine light will come on but don't worry about that at this stage.

 

[BrianMcL]

Hi,
Starting point with anything egr or dpf related is to make sure that the oil change indicator has been reset. MultiEcuScan (mes) on a laptop will let you check.

If it was happening all the time the next step is to disconnect the maf but in your case I'd probably jump to step 3 which is block the egr and see if that fixes it. The check engine light will come on but don't worry about that at this stage.

Once we've eliminated the cause of the problem and removed the blocking panel you can either reset the check engine light with mes, a handheld fault code reader or switching the engine on and off a few times and it should clear itself.