Technical Ducato 2.3 2014 EURO5 - cleaning injectors TEC2000 - how to connect the can?

[tomson]

I've thought I would give it a go and clean injectors using TEC2000 or similar. Might save hassle of taking injectors out which isn't really easy in Ducato (water corrosion issue).

Any idea if it's feasible to use this product in Ducato? What's the best/easier way to connect?

Thanks!

 

[bugsymike]

I've thought I would give it a go and clean injectors using TEC2000 or similar. Might save hassle of taking injectors out which isn't really easy in Ducato (water corrosion issue).

Any idea if it's feasible to use this product in Ducato? What's the best/easier way to connect?

Thanks!

Sounds like a good way to throw away money , are you even sure that is the problem, what testing has been done?

 

[tomson]

It smells diesel on idle. EGR is clean.

My mechanic told me that one injector has higher corrections, therefore suggested that we take all of them and send for check/repair. He warned me though that injectors might get damaged which would be costly to repair.

I would be happy to send the injectors to check them, however I somewhat can't accept that this can easily be additional £600 if injectors are damaged.

I've thought why not to give it a go and "invest" £15, some people claimed it helped them.

 

[bugsymike]

It smells diesel on idle. EGR is clean.

My mechanic told me that one injector has higher corrections, therefore suggested that we take all of them and send for check/repair. He warned me though that injectors might get damaged which would be costly to repair.

I would be happy to send the injectors to check them, however I somewhat can't accept that this can easily be additional £600 if injectors are damaged.

I've thought why not to give it a go and "invest" £15, some people claimed it helped them.

£15 can't hurt, but I would be surprised if you find an improvement. With most of these additives , you just stuff in the fuel tank as you fill up, so it circulates around the system while you drive.
Do you notice any issue whilst driving and does it pass it MOT Emission test OK?

 

[tomson]

I've heard that the additives added to the fuel aren't that effective and in most cases are a waste of money.

Then found that it's possible to run your engine directly on the cleaner e.g.:


and most people are happy with the results, it's just every car has slightly different fuel filter and fuel supply / overflow lines configuration.
I've thought to ask if anyone connected that to Ducato X290, as I am not entirely sure about the fuel lines (not much space inside to understand what's going on).

Not based in the UK, haven't had an emission test just yet, but preparing for one ahead of time.

 

[tomson]

Found some diagram

It won't be easy, because return line needs to be intercepted, that means getting both 11 (rail return line) and 18 (injector overflow) flows back to can and it's hard or impossible to get access to 11.

They join at 10 and go with fuel line 9 back to fuel tank. Perhaps it's possible to intercept the return at the fuel pump on the driver's side (at least for LHD) and feed it back to can.

If I manage to work it out I will post some pictures.

 

[bugsymike]

Found some diagram

View attachment 449755

It won't be easy, because return line needs to be intercepted, that means getting both 11 (rail return line) and 18 (injector overflow) flows back to can and it's hard or impossible to get access to 11.

They join at 10 and go with fuel line 9 back to fuel tank. Perhaps it's possible to intercept the return at the fuel pump on the driver's side (at least for LHD) and feed it back to can.

If I manage to work it out I will post some pictures.

I see what you are trying to achieve, possibly another way would be to do it at the fuel tank using the flow and returns at the fuel pump in tank but disconnecting the fuel tank wiring plug if no where else easy to access.
My main concern regarding in effect running the vehicle on neat cleaner is at that concentration the lubricating properties that diesel injection system relies on to function will be almost zero as cleaning agent is going to be more detergent/petrol? than lubricating diesel so could cause excessive wear in expensive mechanical moving parts in the pump and injectors, also damage any rubber types seals designed for diesel.

On a slight different note many years ago we had a customer who had filled his diesel with petrol by accident and started a long journey, by the time it ground to a halt much of his injector system had to be replaced at great expense.
I know this was extreme and I have known others who only ran a few miles before realising and had their system drained and refilled with diesel and no further damage, so lucky.
I also had an accountant who filled his car with "petrol" at a main road fuel station, drove a 200 mile round trip , rang me in the morning complaining of poor performance and excessive smoke. I took one sniff and told him what a prat he was filling up with diesel! He was emphatic he hadn't and had the receipt to prove it, so he rang the fuel station to complain and the first words they said was, "how far did you get?", apparently they had cars breaking down everywhere due to a duff load of petrol that was largely actually diesel!
This was before all the modern technology of cats, dpf, egrs etc. so less to damage.
At the end of the day, your vehicle, your risk. Though I would caution against it, as not everything online is 100% accurate or advisable.

 

[tomson]

Thanks for the heads up.
From the TEC2000 manufacturer page:

Safe to use: the fuel system cleaner is safe for high-pressure common rail systems and pump nozzle units (PD). The beneficial properties of the diesel additive have been confirmed by testing in independent laboratories of the Ministry of Transport (MOT) in the UK.

There is also Liqui Moly 5170: https://www.liqui-moly.com/de/de/dieselspuelung-p000038.html from a manufacturer page

translated from German:

Suitable for all diesel engines with and without diesel particulate filters.

Preventive use:
Add to diesel fuel at inspection intervals.

Problem-related use:
Disconnect the fuel supply and return lines and insert them into the diesel flush.

Well, I will let you know if I got this working.

 

[bugsymike]

Re this part, does that include running it on 100% their product, rather than in a diluted form in fuel tank etc.?

"From the TEC2000 manufacturer page:

Safe to use: the fuel system cleaner is safe for high-pressure common rail systems and pump nozzle units (PD). The beneficial properties of the diesel additive have been confirmed by testing in independent laboratories of the Ministry of Transport (MOT) in the UK."

 

[deejays]

@tomson One thing to really think about. If any injector is outside the tolerance on correction injections, then the DPF may be at risk during a regen cycle if the faulty injector over fuels during post injection. The post injection is a very small amount even in comparison to the +_2mm3/stroke correction tolerance. Not a mechanic, but learning from observations with MES. Maybe best to follow the advice of your mechanic.

 

[tomson]

Hi @deejays,

I still haven't got to all this, but are you saying that post injection amount doesn't use the injector corrections or that these corrections are order of magnitude different comparing to the precise amount of fuel required for proper regen without damaging DPF?

I am also playing with MES really, given that I own a motorhome I am really happy to have all the diagnostics prepared just in case things fall apart somewhere far from home.

 

[deejays]

Hi @deejays,

I still haven't got to all this, but are you saying that post injection amount doesn't use the injector corrections or that these corrections are order of magnitude different comparing to the precise amount of fuel required for proper regen without damaging DPF?

I am also playing with MES really, given that I own a motorhome I am really happy to have all the diagnostics prepared just in case things fall apart somewhere far from home.

Hi @tomson what I am saying is the post injection amount is small compared to the +-2 mm3/stroke tolerance. For example, a recent recorded DPF burn showed an average of 0.2mm3/stroke. You can see that data on the very long post regarding dual egr issues for Euro 6D engines. Look at my post there. (57pages and counting)

 

[tomson]

In the end I've decided to take the injectors out for cleaning/replacement, in a next few days I shall know if they at least got out.

 

[tomson]

Took the injectors out, then unscrewed them at the bottom and used ultrasonic cleaner.

Even though my injectors were slightly different this video helped me:

They're tightened to the original markings. Hopefully they work better, will know in a few days.

 

[bugsymike]

Took the injectors out, then unscrewed them at the bottom and used ultrasonic cleaner.

Even though my injectors were slightly different this video helped me:

They're tightened to the original markings. Hopefully they work better, will know in a few days.

As long as they have aligned the little locating pins inside correctly.

 

[theoneandonly]

If the injector cleaner is intended to clean and run the engine like liqui moly diesel purge i suspect lubrication would be part of the formulation. I tried to do this on my skoda 1.6 cayc vw engine but ended up just throwing it in the tank. Graph is injector variations before and after a week. It works.

 

[tomson]

Still haven't had chance to drive test properly after cleaning, but car is running just fine.

Corrections on idle have improved on 1st injector (even though it hasn't been coded properly it just yet due to IMA code incompatibility).

I can still smell diesel a bit when engine is cold, there is some improvement here, but not 100%.

What has certainly changed is that pressure builds up way quicker, so car starts couple cranks earlier than before. Not sure if this was the 1st injector stick leaking or perhaps couple others that have been cleaned now, but there is an improvement here.

... and no, locating pins haven't been damaged. In these series (Bosch 110) they're quite easy to deal with.

 

[jackwhoo]

How did you manage removing injectors from cylinder head? Any tips to make job easier?

 

[tomson]

I was spraying the injectors with bult rust removal fortnightly for around two weeks. It's important to temporary seal the drain hole at the right side (LHD) of the rocker cover to leave these specific in this sort of "gutter" where injectors are placed, so it soaks properly. (WARNING. After injector removal the drain hole shall be clear, so mositure/rain can come out easily).

It was useful to order the proper injector holder which can attach to the casing without the need to unscrew the top of the injector: https://aliexpress.com/item/1005003031718152.html I got it from China, since it wasn't available locally.

Just before removal I've also tried to unscrew the injector clamps around 1,5 turns (more is risky and may damage the supply lines) and started the engine. This made 1st injector to come out loose.
I've then attached the slide hammer to the Chinese injector holder and after 2-4 rather light knocks each injector came out nicely.

In my case injectors were rusted on the outside above the O-ring which seals the injector port, however they weren't really dirt or corroded inside the port, I guess I was lucky that these O-rings did the job. I am not sure if my rust spraying was effective or if these injectors ports were in a good shape to start with.

Most people recommend to remove the injectors on warm/hot engine. In my case I was doing it on cold one, because I've broke one bolt which prevented me from starting the engine until somewhat complex job (thread insert) was done in the meantime while I was cleaning the injectors.

If you need any help or advice, I am here.

Good luck !