Technical DPF Multiecuscan not reading values

[theoneandonly]

for your original error code

The number of missing measurements is disconcerting, the distance to last regen would indicate a dpf delete if high or in this case not read. so many related to regen. The precat temp is there, which is one sensor that causes problems with shorts

 

[ian963741]

Sadly, with those low differential pressure values, and the fact you have soot in the exhaust pipe (as noted above, a bad thing in a DPF equipped vehicle) it does look as if the DPF is either broken or possibly has been mapped out - any tell tale weld marks on the DPF unit you can tell ?

I did think that. The dpf is right up behind the engine and pretty hard to inspect properly.

What I do know is the ad blue was mapped out by the previous owner when I went through all the garage invoices. It does only say ad blue delete though so I was assuming it was just that.

What would be typical values for pressure before and after the dpf when I get the manometer working?

 

[ian963741]

I would just use something like a tyre inflator nozzle or a bic pen top. Depends on the hose size.

OK - so using the manometer (and a tyre inflater nozzle - thanks!) these are the readings in mbar:

Post - 1.4 at idle, 10 at 3000 rpm
Pre - 2 at idle, 18 at 3000 rpm

so a diff of 1 ish at idle and 8 at 3000 rpm

Does this indicate a failed dpf - either cracked or gutted?

 

[ian963741]

Also (sorry, spam mode deployed) did you tell MES you'd put a new differential pressure sensor on ? (Adaptations under Engine tab)

OK - so i've tried an adaptation for differential pressure sensor replacement and get this error in MES - have you seen this before:

 

[Googlebot]

OK - so using the manometer (and a tyre inflater nozzle - thanks!) these are the readings in mbar:

Post - 1.4 at idle, 10 at 3000 rpm
Pre - 2 at idle, 18 at 3000 rpm

so a diff of 1 ish at idle and 8 at 3000 rpm

Does this indicate a failed dpf - either cracked or gutted?

I am afraid it does indicate your DPF is knackered. Those are very low figures and while if it was a brand new DPF they might just be acceptable, given the age of it, it seems broken.

Added to that, the soot in the exhaust shouldn’t be there, the DPF should be catching it all.

It does seem like it has been modified and the root cause needs finding. A new DPF will quickly break until you find the cause of the repeated regenerations.

 

[clayts450]

OK - so i've tried an adaptation for differential pressure sensor replacement and get this error in MES - have you seen this before:

View attachment 460553

That's just downright bizarre, which suggests to me the DPF has probably been mapped out.

 

[clayts450]

I am afraid it does indicate your DPF is knackered. Those are very low figures and while if it was a brand new DPF they might just be acceptable, given the age of it, it seems broken.

Added to that, the soot in the exhaust shouldn’t be there, the DPF should be catching it all.

It does seem like it has been modified and the root cause needs finding. A new DPF will quickly break until you find the cause of the repeated regenerations.

The other possibility is the DPF has been completely gutted, mapped out from the ECU, but not done properly. You'd still expect to see some low differential pressure readings, even if mapped out, as there's probably some soot accumulation in there, albeit not very much - that is a more plausible explanation for the low differential pressures, in my opinion.

The only real way to find out is to have the DPF off and have a look to see what's going on.

The original fault does not point to an overloaded DPF, rather it points more to a dodgy ECU map, again in my opinion. Morally the right thing to do is to replace the DPF, but on a Euro 6 that's probably going to be a Fiat only part, thus many many pounds (thousands not hundreds). The options would seem to be:

(1) check the DPF - has the core being gutted out ? (Don't know how easy that would be for you to do at home - you could probably tell just by dropping it from the flexipipe it's hooked up to, but I suspect the Ducato is a darned sight harder to do than a Dobbie - subframe will probably be right in the way.

(2) if the core has been gutted out, get a proper remap done by someone who knows what they're doing and move on with your life - probably £400-ish

(3) get an authentic DPF put on, but it will probably need remapping back to stock - the costly alternative

I think until we know the answer to (1) it's hard to say what the right thing to do, morally or otherwise.

 

[theoneandonly]

Wit

 

[theoneandonly]

What I do know is the ad blue was mapped out by the previous owner when I went through all the garage invoices. It does only say ad blue delete though so I was assuming it was just that.

From what i see i can only agree that the dpf has been deleted and poorly remaped. As to original reasons a few guesses: the adblu was not working possible injector blocked and particulate matter sensor naff now giving rise to latest error (perhaps should have been mapped out). As to which option i suspect van or motohome and value will have an impact.

 

[ian963741]

The other possibility is the DPF has been completely gutted, mapped out from the ECU, but not done properly. You'd still expect to see some low differential pressure readings, even if mapped out, as there's probably some soot accumulation in there, albeit not very much - that is a more plausible explanation for the low differential pressures, in my opinion.

The only real way to find out is to have the DPF off and have a look to see what's going on.

The original fault does not point to an overloaded DPF, rather it points more to a dodgy ECU map, again in my opinion. Morally the right thing to do is to replace the DPF, but on a Euro 6 that's probably going to be a Fiat only part, thus many many pounds (thousands not hundreds). The options would seem to be:

(1) check the DPF - has the core being gutted out ? (Don't know how easy that would be for you to do at home - you could probably tell just by dropping it from the flexipipe it's hooked up to, but I suspect the Ducato is a darned sight harder to do than a Dobbie - subframe will probably be right in the way.

(2) if the core has been gutted out, get a proper remap done by someone who knows what they're doing and move on with your life - probably £400-ish

(3) get an authentic DPF put on, but it will probably need remapping back to stock - the costly alternative

I think until we know the answer to (1) it's hard to say what the right thing to do, morally or otherwise.

Thanks for all your help with this.

Yes - I think I've pretty much come to the same conclusion.

A local mapper who comes well recommended has suggested a stage 1 remap, ad blue delete and dpf delete would be in the region of £695

I did ask if they could tell if the dpf was still complete before remapping - they said they wouldn't want to map it out without physically checking it first and by the time they had got it out, most of the cost would have been spent removing it.

I think I'm probably going to go this route and see what they discover - realistically have I got the the funds to then get them to put back in a new dpf and map it back in? Probably not even though this is probably morally the right thing to do. The remappers obviously said that gutting it and mapping it out was always the best answer.....

What I wanted to avoid was just mapping stuff out without understanding if it just masks a different problem like injectors etc - but all roads seem to now point back to a deleted dpf with dodgy map.......

 

[ian963741]

From what i see i can only agree that the dpf has been deleted and poorly remaped. As to original reasons a few guesses: the adblu was not working possible injector blocked and particulate matter sensor naff now giving rise to latest error (perhaps should have been mapped out). As to which option i suspect van or motohome and value will have an impact.

Thanks for this and your help.

Yes as per above I'm tending to agree that this is a dpf delete and poor remap.

Could the remap be causing black smoke or is that now a symptom of having no dpf - the remappers I've spoken to suggested even a deleted dpf shouldn't cause a sooty exhaust?

In terms of what it is - I'm slowly self converting it to a campervan (which I'm thoroughly enjoying BTW) with the intention of keeping it a long time and with the need for something reliable to get me a long way and back without breaking down. So resale value is less important right now - it's more about reliability

 

[Googlebot]

I am no expert, however I think that having such frequent regeneration attempts will result in constant excess fuelling and dilution of oil.

Does the oil level keep rising?

That may be the cause of the excess smoke.

The local mapper is probably best to check as they can look at all sensors and see what’s happening. They will also be experienced at engines doing odd things when they delete stuff out.

Certainly if you are keeping it and spending lots of money converting it, you are doing the right thing in finding out the root cause.

 

[ian963741]

I am no expert, however I think that having such frequent regeneration attempts will result in constant excess fuelling and dilution of oil.

Does the oil level keep rising?

That may be the cause of the excess smoke.

The local mapper is probably best to check as they can look at all sensors and see what’s happening. They will also be experienced at engines doing odd things when they delete stuff out.

Certainly if you are keeping it and spending lots of money converting it, you are doing the right thing in finding out the root cause.

Thanks!

Yes - I think I'll go that route and see where it takes me.

No the oil level's not obviously rising - I've probably only put 1500 miles on it over the last 6 months to be fair - but one of the first things I did was full oil change, fuel filter, air filter, oil filter, cabin filter - it does have a full service history and has had oil and filter changes every year/10,000 miles - has also had the timing belt and pump done recently - so I think generally it's a decent van as long as I can sort out this one thing.

Only had it 6 months, but it's never failed on me yet - feels responsive enough - and this one code is the only issue.

 

[ian963741]

Also it passed it's MOT October last year without issue - I specifically asked about emissions and the tester said it was all ok......so that's a relief

 

[Googlebot]

Also it passed it's MOT October last year without issue - I specifically asked about emissions and the tester said it was all ok......so that's a relief

I would go for the DPF delete and crack on in that case.

Let us all know the outcome.

 

[clayts450]

I would go for the DPF delete and crack on in that case.

Let us all know the outcome.

Completely agree. It's the only sensible choice without breaking the bank too much.

Sometimes, with the best will in the world, we can't always do the 'right' thing. The option of doing the 'right' thing would probably leave Ian with having to take the unthinkable decision of scrapping the van or selling it on at a massive loss. No-one in the right mind would judge you for taking the option that works best, given the costs involved.

 

[clayts450]

Thanks for all your help with this.

Yes - I think I've pretty much come to the same conclusion.

A local mapper who comes well recommended has suggested a stage 1 remap, ad blue delete and dpf delete would be in the region of £695

I did ask if they could tell if the dpf was still complete before remapping - they said they wouldn't want to map it out without physically checking it first and by the time they had got it out, most of the cost would have been spent removing it.

I think I'm probably going to go this route and see what they discover - realistically have I got the the funds to then get them to put back in a new dpf and map it back in? Probably not even though this is probably morally the right thing to do. The remappers obviously said that gutting it and mapping it out was always the best answer.....

What I wanted to avoid was just mapping stuff out without understanding if it just masks a different problem like injectors etc - but all roads seem to now point back to a deleted dpf with dodgy map.......

I think the fact the mapper wants to make sure all the i's are dotted and t's are crossed means they know what they're doing. Seems the best plan.

 

[ian963741]

I would go for the DPF delete and crack on in that case.

Let us all know the outcome.

Of course I will! Just need to book it in but they’re busy!

 

[ian963741]

I think the fact the mapper wants to make sure all the i's are dotted and t's are crossed means they know what they're doing. Seems the best plan.

I think so.

They come well recommended and have done a number of Ducatos before including motorhomes so I think they’ll be ok.

As a side note, can I use mes to check the state of the injectors or is that a physical test job?

 

[clayts450]

I think so.

They come well recommended and have done a number of Ducatos before including motorhomes so I think they’ll be ok.

As a side note, can I use mes to check the state of the injectors or is that a physical test jo

Member Theoneandonly is probably the best person to answer that. I think you can read correction values which maybe gives you a clue, but have to confess I'm not an expert in this field. (Just trying to work out how you flag the member name on here)