General Cost of my cat d repair

[typecastboy]

Hi folks, thought I would give you a run down of the cost that my car has cost me. For those of you that have helped met out along the way, I am very grateful.

Car is going in for the final bit of professional bodywork to be sorted next week and then it will be complete.

Here's a rundown

Cost of car £3,300
Delivery £85
New Radiator £59.34
Service Card £3.99
Fiat Badge for bumper £8.29
Headlight £44.24
Handbooks £30.99
Slam Panel £78.00
Rear Bumper £40.00
Touch up paint £4.29
Front Bumper - new including painting £175.00
Bumper mouldings £25.90
DRL £30.00
Floor Mats £6.00
Number Plates £10.00
Front Grill £14.00
MoT £54.85
New front offside Wishbone - £269.42
Bodywork repair (crease in bootlid & repair to bonnet) £380.00

Making a grand total of £4619

Cat D's, same year with the same sort of mileage are for sale on Autotrader for around £5,600, wherby non Cat D's are anwhere between £7,500 and £8Kso hopefully I should be able to make a grand out of it and give someone a cracking 500 for a blinding price.

I have learned a lot along the way here, much of it down to the community on this forum, so thank you all again for your help and tips.

 

[snes]

Well done that man! Not an easy route to take, but you stuck to the task, shrugged off the odd bits of flak from this forum, and have hopefully got the result you wanted.

Personally, after all that effort, I'd be loathe to sell the car! Don't you get at all sentimental, TBoy?

Of course, if you're still up for a challenge, JR recently transferred a rather interesting reconditioning challenge to the 500 Classic forum. Take a deep breath before you peek......

 

[typecastboy]

I am quite attached to it I have to say, all the cold and rainy time I've spent outside. I've been working on Car number 2 today though, trying to sort out the bonnet catch that won't shut, got it to shut, but bonnet needs alignment. Cross that bridge later.

Used my Vax machine on the seats today on Car 2 which weren't that dirty and the passenger seat of Car 1, when it drys I'll assess whether it's good enough or to pay for valeting.

Apart from not having a wheel nut key for Car 2, and the bonnet issue, it's pretty much ready to go too.

Be glad to get both sold, and find Car 3. I've learned so much doing these two, especially what and what not to buy as regards parts and replacement panels.

Don't think I could cope with a proper restore of a classic 500

 

[PuntoHowTo]

Which cars on auto trader are you comparing to? I can find quite a few lounges for less money and many Undamaged.

The problem with using auto trader is most of the cars are dealers offering a waranty and credit, making them able to charge a lot more than you could

Also which car will you buy the £7000 car on the dealers forecourt with a years waranty and easy repayment options, or a £5500 car off some blokes drive way with no waranty and no comeback

Add being a previous right off into the mix and you'll struggle to find a buyer with the cash in their pocket willing to take that sort of gamble


The other thing highlighted by your posts on here is you basically bodged it back together some naive person might not notice but when faced with a previous damaged car people will e on high alert for anything not quite 100%

And the first question I would be asking is who did the repair and where are the recipts for the work

 

[typecastboy]

Which cars on auto trader are you comparing to? I can find quite a few lounges for less money and many Undamaged.

The problem with using auto trader is most of the cars are dealers offering a waranty and credit, making them able to charge a lot more than you could

Also which car will you buy the £7000 car on the dealers forecourt with a years waranty and easy repayment options, or a £5500 car off some blokes drive way with no waranty and no comeback

Add being a previous right off into the mix and you'll struggle to find a buyer with the cash in their pocket willing to take that sort of gamble


The other thing highlighted by your posts on here is you basically bodged it back together some naive person might not notice but when faced with a previous damaged car people will e on high alert for anything not quite 100%

And the first question I would be asking is who did the repair and where are the recipts for the work

Thanks for your positive remarks

 

[PuntoHowTo]

Thanks for your positive remarks

You might not like it but it doesn't make it any less true.

 

[Sweetsixteen]

It might seem blunt, but what Andy says is true.
Buying a Cat D vehicle privately is a bridge too far for most people. With no warranty or support, no knowledge of the quality or otherwise of the repair, or of the extent of the original damage - these are real negatives which impact on the selling price.
Go to any of the big auctions and you will spot a guy with a list and a notebook. He is neither a dealer nor a buyer, but is an agent paid by a number of dealers to check the vehicles they might be interested in. He can spot the slightest flaw - an unjigged repair resulting in misalignment, pattern parts used in a repair, uneven panel gaps, unoriginal spray jobs, under or overspray in hidden recesses, etc. etc.
Any sign of these and he tells the dealer to forget the car.
The bottom line is that, even not factoring in your labour costs, it is extremely hard to make any profit and fulfil your legal obligations on a Cat D repair.
Be interested to hear how you get on when you sell it. Bear in mind that advertised prices are just starting points - the final selling price is nearly always a lot lower, and the price drop is always bigger on a repaired car.

 

[jrkitching]

Typecastboy, I've a great respect for the way you've conducted yourself here since joining the forum; you've taken on board what others have said, even when it might not always have been what you wanted to hear. You've also admitted to making a few mistakes along the way, and learned from them. There are a few members of much longer standing here who could learn a lesson from your humility.

I've also got an admiration for anyone like yourself who's prepared to take the initiative to make a chance for themselves to get on.

That said, you're operating in what is possibly the shadiest part of the motor trade - repairing salvage and selling it on. I'd completely agree with everything that Andy & Sweetsixteen are saying; most right thinking folk will avoid recorded cars; selling newish vehicles privately is tough enough even when they're mint and have impeccable histories.

The kind of thing you've done perhaps makes sense if you're after a cheap newish car for yourself; it wouldn't be easy to get a late model 500 for what it's cost you in total to put this all together, and if you can get a few years use out of it, then you'll have enjoyed relatively cheap motoring.

As a way of supplementing your income, I'd be extremely cautious; in this market, you might struggle to get £5600 for a mint one owner '61 plate 1.2 500 lounge sold privately; selling the same car as a repaired write-off, IMO you'll do well to get back what you've spent.

As far as a buyer is concerned, you aren't offering any of the services they'd normally expect of a dealer, such as warranty and finance; to Trading Standards and HMRC, you're a trader, end of, and will have to comply with all the terms of the Sale of Goods Act, keep proper records, and declare and pay tax on any profit you do make. In addition, if you're doing this from domestic premises, then you will almost certainly fall foul of the planning regulations; it will only take one complaint from a neighbour and you will soon be looking into the teeth of an enforcement notice.

Much as I hate discouraging self-sufficiency and innovation, sadly I'd say you're setting yourself up between a rock and a hard place.

 

[Sweetsixteen]

Reckon your best bet is to keep it, as has been suggested. After a few years, when the car is older and has proved itself, you should be able to sell it on with confidence.
When I was starting out in the trade, as a matter of interest I learned that I was not considered a trader unless I sold more than six cars a year. That was unofficial, but apparently how things were viewed back then. So if you sell the occasional repaired car, you would probably not have to keep vat records any more than if you occasionally renewed your furniture and sold the old stuff.
Others may have more up-to-date info on this aspect.

 

[jrkitching]

When I was starting out in the trade, as a matter of interest I learned that I was not considered a trader unless I sold more than six cars a year. That was unofficial, but apparently how things were viewed back then. So if you sell the occasional repaired car, you would probably not have to keep vat records any more than if you occasionally renewed your furniture and sold the old stuff.
Others may have more up-to-date info on this aspect.

Things have tightened up recently; if you sell more than four cars a year, you'll be considered a trader, regardless of whether you buy them for personal use or not.

HMRC set up a task force in 2012 to specifically target the motor trade, looking for potential tax evaders.

You could buy a salvage car, repair it, use it for a few months, sell it on and repeat; so long as you only do this four times a year, you should be OK. But if you buy even one car specifically to sell on (as opposed to buying it for personal use), then you're a trader, full stop.

Note that even as a private individual, you'd still be liable to Capital Gains Tax if you sold it for more than you paid for it (but the first £11,000pa (2014-15) of any gains are tax exempt).

IMO what typecastboy has already posted here would be sufficient evidence to make him a trader in the eyes of HMRC, Trading Standards and the Planning Authority.

In practice, you're probably OK until someone either notices or complains. But it would only take one dissatisfied customer or neighbour, complaining to the right person, to put a stop to your activities.

VAT is a separate issue; you don't have to register until your annual turnover exceeds £81000, or you exceed that figure in a 30 day period. From the government website:

"You must register for VAT if:

• your VAT taxable turnover is more than £81,000 (the ‘threshold’) in a 12 month period
• you receive goods in the UK from the EU worth more than £81,000
• you expect to go over the threshold in a single 30 day period".

 

[PuntoHowTo]

The money side of things isn't so much of an issue, you'd pay tax on your income as a self employed person, the problem I see here is a poorly repaired car being sold to the general public, as mentioned fine if you want to keep it and drive around yourself

In the back of my mind I have some poor newly qualified driver, probably female thinking she's getting a bargain, as a new driver, potentially much higher risk of having an accident, and the car doesn't respond appropriately, she loses her life and you get done for manslaughter which opens you up personally to a huge financial claim of millions (which you can't hope to pay) could land you in prison on top of that you have to live with it for the rest of your life.

This is why proper traders charge so much as they have hefty insurance bills to pay a long with overheads, my brothers motor trade insurance policy is £3000 a year

 

[Sweetsixteen]

As a safeguard to yourself and any purchaser, just make sure you print out two identical copies of the sale receipt, properly worded to give details of damage and work done as appropriate, and stating that the buyer takes the vehicle in full knowledge and agreement.,Then both of you sign and date both copies, and each keep one.
It's a hassle and might put a potential buyer off, but better this than a nasty come-back later with accusations flying.
We had a set wording on our sales invoices covering a range of potential issues - not to weasel out of our responsibilities, but to get the picture completely clear for both parties.

 

[typecastboy]

All points read, understood and taken on board. This is more of a hobby than a supplement to my income. I have really enjoyed doing it, even in the rain and cold and to make a decent profit would be nice, but as long as I break even, I'll be happy.

I would never try to pull the wool over somebody's eyes. I will be completely open and honest when I sell the cars.

I sold one last year, which I originally bought to try to get my daughter and my wife to drive (unsuccessfully), this wasn't a write off, but I got it at a very good price. Drove it around for a month or so and then sold it for a £900 profit. The Cat D's are more of an experiment and will do many things differently next time (if there is a next time).

I am aware of the legislation regarding dealers.

Only time will tell how successful selling them will be.

 

[jrkitching]

I sold one last year, which I originally bought to try to get my daughter and my wife to drive (unsuccessfully), this wasn't a write off, but I got it at a very good price. Drove it around for a month or so and then sold it for a £900 profit.

Most folks I've met who are in the business of trading secondhand cars tell me you make your profit when you buy, not when you sell.

And they also tell me they make much more profit out of trading than they ever do out of repairing.

 

[typecastboy]

Most folks I've met who are in the business of trading secondhand cars tell me you make your profit when you buy, not when you sell.

And they also tell me they make much more profit out of trading than they ever do out of repairing.

You mean they buy cheap and sell dear? Well that's what I did with the original one so I can understand that, and a lot less effort too.

 

[jrkitching]

You mean they buy cheap and sell dear? Well that's what I did with the original one so I can understand that, and a lot less effort too.

Actually you buy cheap and sell for a fair price. The point I'm making is that it's generally much easier to buy below market than it is to sell above it.

 

[Sweetsixteen]

Actually you buy cheap and sell for a fair price. The point I'm making is that it's generally much easier to buy below market than it is to sell above it.

Hard to sell above the market. You'll get one sale and a name for being expensive.
Better to buy canny and sell below the market.
That way, you make a sale and get recommended to others.

 

[typecastboy]

Actually you buy cheap and sell for a fair price. The point I'm making is that it's generally much easier to buy below market than it is to sell above it.

Yes, that's what I meant