Clutch pedal lock. 2013 Fiat Panda 4x4, only 30k on clock. Intermittently when I stop, brake & clutch together, the clutch pedal will not lift when I engage gear and try to move off. If I lift the pedal with my toe, the car lurches forward and stalls. The problem cures itself if I leave the car for about an hour. Anyone else got a similar issue?
Technical Clutch Lock
- Thread starter Pandabeagle
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Technical Clutch Lock
Probably the clutch hydraulics..
Not uncommon failure with the 500
When did the fluid last get changed?
Not uncommon failure with the 500
When did the fluid last get changed?
Probably never.. Only 30k on the clock and only standard servicing followed.
Chances are it's just something physically failing,
Not unheard of
Look at the SEARCH function : 500 section
Not unheard of
Look at the SEARCH function : 500 section
The Panda Nut
Nutty about Pandas Infected by Panda virus and OPD
STd servicing missses out several things that would be better carried out! This is one. My 2017 car did this at aboy 6 months old. I believe it was the master cyclinder which was a half hour warranty job while I waited. The return spring is internal as thats clearly a great and sensible alternative to whats been normal for 100 years. Then springs are prone to failure. I think the sspec has been changed to reduce or stop the issue recurring. As the slave is concentric and is inside the bell housing it would be a big job to change that! Panda master cylinders are easy to DIY. But I dont know how the TA 4x4 clutch is bled so check that first.
exact same thing happened to me in my petrol 1.2 2006 169** 4x4 in congested traffic (in Coventry) and I remember noticing squeaking noises when pressing the clutch pedal which was also becoming stiff+jerky. Unaware that the clutch would eventually recover +that the pedal would be able to be lifted when sufficient hydraulic pressure had returned, I called my insurance vehicle recovery and the car was brought back home on the truck (with me in the cab
)Turned out it was the slave cylinder, which is more easily accessed in the engine bay under the battery than the master, which is somewhat awkward to access, recessed into the bulkhead behind the clutch pedal + accessed from the bottom of the engine bay (tricky without a lift I would think).
My local indie had to wait 5-6 weeks to get a new slave (quite a small part) because of a “supply shortage” - not surprised as it was a very cheap+nasty plastic part that must have been failing in every Panda - but he told me I could continue driving the car on local journeys avoiding heavy traffic, so it wasn’t really a problem.
You might want to consider having both master + slave replaced (along with the connecting pipework) bearing in mind they’re probably the originals therefore 11-12 years old (my car was a similar age but maybe 50k miles). If you’re able to do work like this yourself there are YT vids which I can probably find if you want?
** I believe the petrol clutch pipework + lever system and cylinder locations are pretty much the same in the 312/9 as the 169
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This is correct, but only with the 1.2 petrol engine. If the car in question has a TwinAir or the MultiJet diesel engine (it will have as its a 4x4), then the slave cylinder is inside the clutch/gearbox housing itself, behind and concentric with the clutch plate and so can only be replaced by removing the gearbox and clutch first -- a much bigger and considerably more expensive task I'm afraid.
So, not really the same as the older model: the clutch pipework is different as well on the 312 model compared to the previous 169, in addition to that concentric slave unit. On the 312 Panda the clutch is operated using fluid from the brake fluid reservoir, not a separate reservoir as it was on the older 169 model.
But, worth a check and maybe change of brake/clutch fluid -- if this becomes contaminated or gets an air bubble in it (the fluid is taken from higher up in the reservoir than for the brake circuit, so if the level drops air might get in?) the clutch pedal can behave as described.
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Well, this YT video shows how to replace the slave cylinder in a TwinAir Panda (and also 4x4). You can clearly see the TwinAir plastic engine cover and the vid shows that the clutch slave cylinder is not “inside the clutch/gearbox housing itself, behind and concentric with the clutch plate” but is inside the engine bay underneath the battery housing.
The video shows that replacement of the slave cylinder is a relatively simple job for a reasonably competent DIYer (which probably excludes me…) assuming, of course, that the problem is in fact with the slave and not the clutch master cylinder (which appears to be a much more awkward job without access to a lift).
But even if the job has to be done by a good indie (not a main dealer!) the cost should not be life changing
even if they replace both master+slave plus the pipework (which is probably what I’d do if I was paying to have it done).
There's a clue in the first post: brake and clutch pressed at the same time... which might point to a low fluid and so air entrainment issue? What's the brake fluid level look like?
pretty normal in slow+congested urban driving - exact circumstances this happened to me in Coventry
…my old 169 4x4 did it too (but that has a separate clutch fluid reservoir, so not affected by using the brakes). On that older one I replaced the fluid, flushing it through the bleed valve at the slave end, and it never did it again, although did take a couple of goes to get all the bubbles out (As described in this post of mine from a few years ago…
Post in thread 'Clutch pedal jerky / sticks down'
https://www.fiatforum.com/threads/clutch-pedal-jerky-sticks-down.293421/post-3191052)
Problem never did return in the rest of the time I had that car.
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There are multiple posts on the forum concerning clutch hydraulics problems on our Pandas. I have no experience - thank goodness - of the "silly" concentric slave cylinders but both my boy's Punto and our various Pandas have had problems. The symptoms on the Punto - 2012 1.4 8valve - were all pointing towards the master cylinder. the Haynes manual shows it to be a reasonably simple procedure and You tube videos seemed to confirm this. Was it hell! What I didn't know is that they've changed the pedal assembly, just enough, on the newer Punto (so after the Evo, when they started calling them just Punto again, which must make my boys 2012 one of the first?) so that the pedal gets in the way of removing the cylinder necessitating removal of pedal/pedal box parts to get it out. The frustrating part is that it oh so nearly comes out, but it won't! I ended up with bloody fingers and, because I didn't understand that the assembly needs to be undone, I loosely reassembled it all and took it round to Kenny's Fiat garage. His foreman did the job and, waving bloody fingers in my face, greeted me with "I never want to do another of those, its not like the GP is it?" To our great frustration it didn't completely cure the problem so I fitted a new slave and it was fine after that. Can't help wondering if it was actually only the slave which needed renewed - the diagnostic decision was mine!
Becky, our 2012 1.2 Panda, developed a loud squeak whenever the pedal was depressed. Started quite intermittenty and quite quietly but got louder and was happening pretty much every time I pushed the pedal down. At that time I didn't know this is a known problem with them so it took me some time to track it down to the slave, being as how they've inconveniently stuck it under the battery tray! I squirted some silicone oil under the dust rubber and the noise went away for a while but then came back. A new slave quickly and cheaply sorted it.
Edit. I note Herts Hillhopper post above says saying that his pedal was sticking down and that's not all that uncommon. If the slave actually sticks in the "down" position then the master cylinder piston won't return as it's relying, at least in part, on the clutch diaphragm spring pushing the slave cylinder piston back into the slave cylinder. Of course there are other things which might be causing this but it might be worth "pulsing" the clutch pedal with your foot in the hope that it might, temporarily, loosen the slave piston in it's bore and allow it to return. Not a cure, but it might allow you to move the car from a dangerous situation or even get home.
Becky, our 2012 1.2 Panda, developed a loud squeak whenever the pedal was depressed. Started quite intermittenty and quite quietly but got louder and was happening pretty much every time I pushed the pedal down. At that time I didn't know this is a known problem with them so it took me some time to track it down to the slave, being as how they've inconveniently stuck it under the battery tray! I squirted some silicone oil under the dust rubber and the noise went away for a while but then came back. A new slave quickly and cheaply sorted it.
Edit. I note Herts Hillhopper post above says saying that his pedal was sticking down and that's not all that uncommon. If the slave actually sticks in the "down" position then the master cylinder piston won't return as it's relying, at least in part, on the clutch diaphragm spring pushing the slave cylinder piston back into the slave cylinder. Of course there are other things which might be causing this but it might be worth "pulsing" the clutch pedal with your foot in the hope that it might, temporarily, loosen the slave piston in it's bore and allow it to return. Not a cure, but it might allow you to move the car from a dangerous situation or even get home.
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Our RHD cars don't have a separate reservoir, but (when hydraulic) use the brakefluidreservoir. I think the fluid in most LHD cars is never changed causing contamination and therefor rust destroys masters and slaves. I would suggest changing the clutchfluid every 2 years as well to prevent water and other dirt getting in the system.
gr J
gr J
Absolutely. As many of us will know, you should be changing clutch/brake fluid every 2 to 3 years anyway because of contamination from moisture as well as solids from rubbers etc. Quite some years ago I bought an expensive boiling point brake fluid tester in the hope that i could put off doing fluid chages so often as I'd only need to change it when the moisture level became dangerous. I was also having quite a number of problems with breaking bleed nipples at that time due to most of the vehicles I was working on being pretty old. After about a year of using the tester I decided I wasn't too happy with it's reliability. I found that you could check fluid on any given vehicle one week and perhaps find it passed the test but then failed it just a week later. So I went back to changing fluid every two to three years. I solved the broken nipple problem by buying a Vibroshock tool kit and have actually never broken a nipple since - it's a wonderful tool but a total luxury. Also you need an air gun with a decent compressor to drive it to be effective.
Here's a video of how it works. It's a bit long and rambling but gives you a good idea how to use it. The big secret I find, is not to force the wrench handle, let the air hammer rattle away at it until it takes only moderate force to move the nipple. Of course there's tons of other stuff it works equally well on. Here's the video
Motor repairer in Rothesay diagnosed "failing slave cylinder" and replaced it. Hopefully, problem cured. Thanks for all your advice!!
The Panda Nut
Nutty about Pandas Infected by Panda virus and OPD
I hooked it back up with my toes on my 2017 TA. I mpresume suction did the trick ay the slave end.
