There is a sensor on the inside of the handle which UNLOCKS the door, so, yes, just a dainty press of the pinkie on the button is all that's needed.
General Car broken into, kind of....
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General Car broken into, kind of....
There is a sensor on the inside of the handle which UNLOCKS the door, so, yes, just a dainty press of the pinkie on the button is all that's needed.
I deliberately didn't get the keyless entry as I was a little concerned with this issue and it seems to be becoming a big problem especially if people are trying to steal Fiats lol
I have even taken to parking the Seicento in front of the driveway to block the 500x being taken.
I am thinking off getting a box to block the signal even on my remote without the keyless entry as I think they can relay that as well as they stole the work Mercedes van in this manner.
Sucks we live in a world where you cant have nice things cause some lazy scumbag takes it and the Police cant deter them.
I have even taken to parking the Seicento in front of the driveway to block the 500x being taken.
I am thinking off getting a box to block the signal even on my remote without the keyless entry as I think they can relay that as well as they stole the work Mercedes van in this manner.
Sucks we live in a world where you cant have nice things cause some lazy scumbag takes it and the Police cant deter them.
Yes - I just bought a Faraday Bag for my key (yet to test it near the car to see if it doesn't work!) but considering a small box of Faraday properties for the spare keys at home.
My wife has a Renault Captur which is keyless (the door handles work the other way round on hers, press the handle external button to unlock before pulling the handle) so she's waiting to see if the bag I have works to kill the radio waves. Her 'key' is a card device wherreas the Fiat is more of the old fob style.
Hassle do have to do all this though - why are there so many scumbags around? I've worked hard to get this car, it's mine and no-one else's!
R-V-M
I recently bought a set of credit card and passport "shield" slips to not allow contactless / skimming whilst in the slips. Works fine for the contactless credit/debit cards.
Just out of interest I put the 500X key fob in the passport slip and it had no effect whatsoever. Was hoping the test out how far I could drive the car with "key not present".
When you get your Faraday Bag and checked it blocks the key you may like to start the car, put fob in bag and go for a drive (on quiet roads) and see for how many miles you can drive the car with the "key not present" status.
Just out of interest I put the 500X key fob in the passport slip and it had no effect whatsoever. Was hoping the test out how far I could drive the car with "key not present".
When you get your Faraday Bag and checked it blocks the key you may like to start the car, put fob in bag and go for a drive (on quiet roads) and see for how many miles you can drive the car with the "key not present" status.
Think I'll go for the wife in convoy vehicle or a magnetic under vehicle key box.
Not sure the "Reindeer Appreciation Club" would be very amused by a 500X on the loose and grounded just before Christmas
I guess you tested it by trying to buy at a shop with the card in a sleeve, passed over the machine?
I put my keys in the pouch I bought today and slid that into my pocket, walked up to the car and it unlocked like a pro. Do I rate that as a fail though? This morning, I'd started the car then had to go back in the house to collect something and I was a good 20' from the car but it kept running nicely. Dunno what to believe now...
R-V-M
Yes both me and wife have tried the cards in the sleeves over the machines and nothing happens.
NFC (Near Field Communication as used in payment cards) uses a frequency of 13.56MHz. Not checked but I think the remote key fobs run at over 300MHz.
In layman's terms RF penetration / leakage is a bit like 100W/100 oil vs 0W/0 oil. One will stick like glue and the other just disappear before your eyes. All sorts of issues like boundary conditions and skin effect come into play and shielding becomes more of an exact science than just a tin box.
This could prove to be FUN!
TrevC
Established member
Wrapping the key fob in aluminium foil stops the keyless entry working in my car. There must be a market now for a neat hinged aluminium box for the hall to put your fob in. Very important that the door is properly sealed electrically, with some kind of conductive gasket.
Although I don't think there is too much demand for stolen to order 500X's, I've switched my keyless entry off in the menu, having watched CCTV footage today on the BBC website of a Merc being stolen using an rf signal booster. Official police advice - fit a Thatcham approved steering wheel lock. Back to the good old 70s when you had to fit a Krooklock to avoid your Cortina being nicked! Still doesn't prevent them pinching stuff from your car.
It's a disgrace that manufacturers have fitted such insecure gadgets to our cars. I wonder if the Merc owner who has CCTV evidence has a case against Mercedes for providing a security system not fit for purpose? Could be rich pickings for the ambulance chasers here!
Although I don't think there is too much demand for stolen to order 500X's, I've switched my keyless entry off in the menu, having watched CCTV footage today on the BBC website of a Merc being stolen using an rf signal booster. Official police advice - fit a Thatcham approved steering wheel lock. Back to the good old 70s when you had to fit a Krooklock to avoid your Cortina being nicked! Still doesn't prevent them pinching stuff from your car.
It's a disgrace that manufacturers have fitted such insecure gadgets to our cars. I wonder if the Merc owner who has CCTV evidence has a case against Mercedes for providing a security system not fit for purpose? Could be rich pickings for the ambulance chasers here!
You may want to think about buying this then... ("for the hall")
On the other hand, this will be a nicer (more portable) alternative.
If I did what you've done (off with the keyless entry) doesn't the keyfob still give out waves of interesting vibes to unscrupulous scrotes? If not, does one just use it in the same way as an ordinary lock/unlock jobby with the buttons as with an older car? I could live with that to avoid the constant looking-over-the-shoulder for no-gooders.
Re the above, second item, perhaps cutting a sliver of bacofoil to trap in the gusset seal would make it 100% if it's not already (I haven't bought one yet) though if you read back a few messages I did get a pouch, put my wife's Captur key card and my 500X fob in there and got into both cars no problem.
I have also looked at the steering wheel lock devices and checked online to see what is recommended - it's the Disklok every time but what a monster to mess with - though having a car with one to mess with is better than no car at all. The device which clamps to the wheel and rests on the dash looks good and is very visual.
I often thought that a 120dB horn in the car would stop any tosser lasting more than a few seconds inside a cab but how to wire it to save my own hearing is a bit out of my reach at the moment. It's a pita to find that the 500X with all its gadgets doesn't have an alarm (or does it, beyond deadlocking if Fiat think that's enough?)
R-V-M
Just in discussion - if I'm using the fob to gain entry or lock up, I'm still using a broadcasting signal so isn't that still receiveable by some low-life with the gizmo for doing what it does?
("for the hall")On the other hand, this will be a nicer (more portable) alternative.
If I did what you've done (off with the keyless entry) doesn't the keyfob still give out waves of interesting vibes to unscrupulous scrotes? If not, does one just use it in the same way as an ordinary lock/unlock jobby with the buttons as with an older car? I could live with that to avoid the constant looking-over-the-shoulder for no-gooders.
Re the above, second item, perhaps cutting a sliver of bacofoil to trap in the gusset seal would make it 100% if it's not already (I haven't bought one yet) though if you read back a few messages I did get a pouch, put my wife's Captur key card and my 500X fob in there and got into both cars no problem.
I have also looked at the steering wheel lock devices and checked online to see what is recommended - it's the Disklok every time but what a monster to mess with - though having a car with one to mess with is better than no car at all. The device which clamps to the wheel and rests on the dash looks good and is very visual.
I often thought that a 120dB horn in the car would stop any tosser lasting more than a few seconds inside a cab but how to wire it to save my own hearing is a bit out of my reach at the moment. It's a pita to find that the 500X with all its gadgets doesn't have an alarm (or does it, beyond deadlocking if Fiat think that's enough?)
R-V-M
Just in discussion - if I'm using the fob to gain entry or lock up, I'm still using a broadcasting signal so isn't that still receiveable by some low-life with the gizmo for doing what it does?
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TrevC
Established member
As I understand it, when the keyless entry is switched on, grasping the doorhandle triggers the car to send a short-range interrogation signal to the key fob, which responds by sending an "unlock" code. The theft devices amplify the car's signal so that the key can receive it several metres away. The theft device has a sensitive receiver, which detects the code from the key and transmits it back to the car, causing it to unlock.
If keyless entry is disabled, there is no reason for the car to send the interrogation signal so the key fob will not respond.
Using the button on the fob to lock the car should be secure as any device that "captures" that signal will probably be unable to replicate a valid "unlock" code, due to the code changing each time in a sequence only known to the locking system for your car. At least, I think that's how it all works!
Thieves have used jamming devices on remote locking systems which prevent the fob from locking the car as you leave it. However, you can tell if it has locked easily enough by ear and the hazards flashing.
I had assumed (apparently incorrectly) that to start the car, the system used something more sophisticated than signal strength. My 500X won't start if I hold the fob even a couple of inches outside the window, so I thought it may use a network of sensors in the car to determine the keyfob location by triangulation - that's what I would have done.
It would be nice if someone who really knew how these locking systems worked could give us an accurate description/explanation.
If keyless entry is disabled, there is no reason for the car to send the interrogation signal so the key fob will not respond.
Using the button on the fob to lock the car should be secure as any device that "captures" that signal will probably be unable to replicate a valid "unlock" code, due to the code changing each time in a sequence only known to the locking system for your car. At least, I think that's how it all works!
Thieves have used jamming devices on remote locking systems which prevent the fob from locking the car as you leave it. However, you can tell if it has locked easily enough by ear and the hazards flashing.
I had assumed (apparently incorrectly) that to start the car, the system used something more sophisticated than signal strength. My 500X won't start if I hold the fob even a couple of inches outside the window, so I thought it may use a network of sensors in the car to determine the keyfob location by triangulation - that's what I would have done.
It would be nice if someone who really knew how these locking systems worked could give us an accurate description/explanation.
If keyless entry is set to off then I also believe that the car does not send an interrogation to the key fob. This has to be/must be a three factor/stage event - i.e. manual/physical initiated(1) request (2) and response (3) . If (1) was missing the car would self unlocking/lock when you do not want it to.
With regards to the key fob buttons then the car is permanently listening for correct code from the fob. And yes these are now rolling codes so each code is different.
The other day my fob stop working and I could not lock/unlock the car. No battery warning.. I tried my spare and mysteriously that did not work either.
After a few more tries with the main key it started to work again as did the spare.
I can only assume that in my tight jeans the fob button got pressed many times out of reach of the car and this caused the key fob code sequence to "march" on and get completely out of step with the car.
The marching code algorithms allow for missed (one or more) sequences but many missed steps can throw them. It then takes more lock/unlock sequences for the parties to get back in sync.
As for my spare not working then I guess both keys were on the same "seed" from being manufactured so when one key got out of sync so did the other. Two keys bought at different times would probably not have the same issue.
Puzzled me at the time as I thought that a more serious failure in the car security system had happened.
With regards to the key fob buttons then the car is permanently listening for correct code from the fob. And yes these are now rolling codes so each code is different.
The other day my fob stop working and I could not lock/unlock the car. No battery warning.. I tried my spare and mysteriously that did not work either.
After a few more tries with the main key it started to work again as did the spare.
I can only assume that in my tight jeans the fob button got pressed many times out of reach of the car and this caused the key fob code sequence to "march" on and get completely out of step with the car.
The marching code algorithms allow for missed (one or more) sequences but many missed steps can throw them. It then takes more lock/unlock sequences for the parties to get back in sync.
As for my spare not working then I guess both keys were on the same "seed" from being manufactured so when one key got out of sync so did the other. Two keys bought at different times would probably not have the same issue.
Puzzled me at the time as I thought that a more serious failure in the car security system had happened.
TrevC
Established member
Probably not worth losing sleep over with a 500X, unlikely to be stolen to order. Even if covered by insurance though, it's a shedload of hassle and inconvenience if your car is stolen.
Well for information to all my 500X display a message on the dash that the key fob battery was low (along with pretty colour picture).
On replacing the battery I noticed the following:
1) Circuit board manufactured by Continental
2) Just the one main chip with a pretty large coil assembly all around the chip
A little research and we see:
http://continental-carkey.com/
https://www.continental-automotive.com/en-gl/Passenger-Cars/Interior/Comfort-Security/Access-Control-Systems
https://www.continental-automotive.com/en-gl/Passenger-Cars/Interior/Comfort-Security
https://www.continental-automotive.com/en-gl/Passenger-Cars/Interior/Software-Solutions-Services/Continental-cloud/Remote-Cloud-key
Enjoy
On replacing the battery I noticed the following:
1) Circuit board manufactured by Continental
2) Just the one main chip with a pretty large coil assembly all around the chip
A little research and we see:
http://continental-carkey.com/
https://www.continental-automotive.com/en-gl/Passenger-Cars/Interior/Comfort-Security/Access-Control-Systems
https://www.continental-automotive.com/en-gl/Passenger-Cars/Interior/Comfort-Security
https://www.continental-automotive.com/en-gl/Passenger-Cars/Interior/Software-Solutions-Services/Continental-cloud/Remote-Cloud-key
Enjoy
G1KEA
New member
I am a radio amateur and operate radios on HF, VHF and UHF. My wife and I have had a few Fiats, Grande Punto, Punto Evo and now have a Panda 4x4 and the 500x (keyless doors and ignition). All of these cars have issues with locking & unlocking when I use my UHF radios on 430 to 440 MHz. I have also noticed the 500x will not start if my transmitter is on. Once started it is fine. I've even stopped (accidentally) someone locking their 500 down the road. Power from the transmitter does not need to be high but is depends on proximity and power level. Manufacturers are allowed to use low power devices (e.g. electronic keys) in the ISM (Industrial, Scientific & Medical) part of the amateur band which is ultimately controlled by the MOD as they are the primary user. ISM users have to accept undue interference from other users of the band.
I've also noticed owners of some Fords unable to lock their cars if I am transmitting
I've also noticed owners of some Fords unable to lock their cars if I am transmitting
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Hi
I bet your popular!
I would not be happy with you living down the road from me, I'm surprised you have not had people bang on your door
LUIGI
I bet your popular!
I would not be happy with you living down the road from me, I'm surprised you have not had people bang on your door
LUIGI
G1KEA
New member
Other than our own cars i've only noticed the problem with a 500 down the road. We have all sorts of makes and models by us and haven't noticed anyone else with a problem. Well I know it is not a fault with the radio as it happens with hand held, mobile and base units. I've been licensed for over 30 years and been on committees at national level on EMC issues. These types of problems have been around for years, at least i don't live next to a Fiat dealer.
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Hi
Never the less.......some poor bugger goes to there unlocked car which they know they locked, and had stuff pinched out of it or worse....and it's ok by you, is that what your saying?
I don't care how may years you have been doing this...it's not right.
Theft from a insured car or worse' 'unlocked'' in void.
Like I said...good job you don't live near me with all that going on
LUIGI
Never the less.......some poor bugger goes to there unlocked car which they know they locked, and had stuff pinched out of it or worse....and it's ok by you, is that what your saying?
I don't care how may years you have been doing this...it's not right.
Theft from a insured car or worse' 'unlocked'' in void.
Like I said...good job you don't live near me with all that going on
LUIGI
G1KEA
New member
No it's not OK but this problem has been around for years with electronic keys and alarm systems unfortunately. Any manufacturer using devices in the ISM bands have to accept the fact they are not the mains users of those bands and they may have problems (this is in national guidelines for frequency allocation). I have just checked the owners hand book and they have a warning on page 17, "The operation of the recognition system depends on various factors, such as, for example, any electromagnetic wave interference from external sources..."
The only reason I have mentioned this in this thread is to highlight peoples awareness to the problem that happens with many manufactures.
The only reason I have mentioned this in this thread is to highlight peoples awareness to the problem that happens with many manufactures.
