General Buying a new Abarth

[jdas03]

Hi all,

Been looking for a replacement for my 51plate Audi S3 after trying a 500 esseesse with monza exhaust yesterday, i think i have found the car!
Also tried a cooper S which i like but it lacked the craiziness of the abarth!

I am looking at speccing a new one out in the next couple of months, the monza exhaust is a must as the sound was incredible and it supposedly gives extra ponies too!

My first question is about the Esseesse kit, what do you actually get for 2.5k most places just talk about increase in power which is an expensive remap! I also heard about koni suspension upgrade you get with it? Could someone clear it up for me and tell me what you actually get for the price?

The second question is around the options available.
Can you guys recommend options that you have? theres a fair few options and im looking for ones which you guys recommend and those that may keep residuals higher.

The final thing is colour, I like the standard free white with red decals, however i notice theres an optional 700 pound white on the list, is that worth the increase cost? what is the difference?

Any other comments about the car or tuning/options etc would be great

 

[J333EVO]

Monza exhaust rusts, the valve sticks shut and stops working, so many jam it open making you wonder whats the point of having an exhaust that sold with a USP of being quiet at cruise & loud ehen the throttle is opened up. It fits four small round pipes in two big round holes and looks wierd, and is therefore an over priced mild steel exhaust back box. More power, I doubt it. After market like BTB exhausts are far superior.

SS kit adds drilled brake discs and better compound pads, nicer wheels, BMC air filter, re-mapped ECU, lowered unresolved springs (see other thread) and an option to pay more for Koni FSD dampers. All supplied in a big wooden crate.

It's a good way to provide more go for buyers without having to put the car through extra very expensive homologation EEC testing as a stand alone model.

Colour and options are all personal on a new car.

 

[jdas03]

Monza exhaust rusts, the valve sticks shut and stops working, so many jam it open making you wonder whats the point of having an exhaust that sold with a USP of being quiet at cruise & loud ehen the throttle is opened up. It fits four small round pipes in two big round holes and looks wierd, and is therefore an over priced mild steel exhaust back box. More power, I doubt it. After market like BTB exhausts are far superior.

SS kit adds drilled brake discs and better compound pads, nicer wheels, BMC air filter, re-mapped ECU, lowered unresolved springs (see other thread) and an option to pay more for Koni FSD dampers. All supplied in a big wooden crate.

It's a good way to provide more go for buyers without having to put the car through extra very expensive homologation EEC testing as a stand alone model.

Colour and options are all personal on a new car.

It rusts?! Really! That's bad news! Glad you have told me that, I love the fact it's quiet when cruising but when you put your foot down it really makes some noise! Have they not sorted the rust? Is there any warranty on the exhausts?
If not then guess I will have to look for an alternative if I one! Is there anything after market and similar for noise and ability to quiet down when cruising?
Are the uprated koni kits worth going for after adding ss pack?

Thanks for the info

 

[jimbro1000]

The standard exhaust rusts as well... got an advisory on the first MOT for mine. That's after just 21k miles and 3 horrible winters with lots of salt on the road.

 

[loveshandbags]

The final thing is colour, I like the standard free white with red decals, however i notice theres an optional 700 pound white on the list, is that worth the increase cost? what is the difference?

Referred to as Funk White. I had this colour. Not to sure if I would spec it on a A500.

It rusts?! Really! That's bad news! Glad you have told me that, I love the fact it's quiet when cruising but when you put your foot down it really makes some noise! Have they not sorted the rust? Is there any warranty on the exhausts?
If not then guess I will have to look for an alternative if I one! Is there anything after market and similar for noise and ability to quiet down when cruising?
Are the uprated koni kits worth going for after adding ss pack?

Thanks for the info

Some have gone for a stainless steel Gtech for around the same price as the Monza. Monza should not impact insurance since it would be deemed a 'Dealer option'.
Suggest setting yourself a budget since all the goodies add up quickly. Hugh choice with glass roofs, Climate, Sabelts / Red leather, Split seats on the standard fabric, Monza, etc. Koni FSDs seem to sort out the suspension on the A500. I struggled with the esseesse springs on test drives but haven't tried them with the FSDs. If these were bought aftermarket I get the impression that they would have a life time guarantee. You would need to keep the original shocks if you were applying for a replacement. I would probably opt to keep the standard springs with the FSDs and possibly reduce the size of the bump stops to the ones suggested by J333EVO regardless.
Colour wise it is hard to beat the BNW with the stripes but the stealth look in Black is also quite nice. Some reckon the grey is the best colour and the Red although a little soft looks well.
Personally I like the esseesse wheels in titanium which come with excellent Michelin tyres and these help to justify the cost of the kit upgrade. Plus the chip upgrade barely impacts the insurance premium unlike the TMC.
Esseesse chip adds roughly another 15bhp to the 145bhp of the standard A500 running the boost from 1 bar to 1.2bar where the turbo is close to the limit. Also the boost guage will read correctly unlike the 'value for money' TMC piggyback chip.
You would delay the esseesse upgrade for up to 1 year & 12K if you buy from new. 2 year warranty applies from date of fitting. Note the reduced service interval of 6K for oil changes.

 

[jdas03]

Thanks for the reply, I really liked the sound of the Monza exhaust so i think I will opt for that and try find a way of protecting it :-S.
As for the options, I have a reasonable budget, anyone know how much the Koni's cost? I was thinking of the following spec:

- Esseesse kit
- Monza Exhaust
- Red leather
- Koni's??
- Sun roof of some type??
- Blue + Me Nav??

A few uncertainties above as I dont know the benefits or thoughts of owners of the car. Any help or pointers would be great
With regards to power I have also seen places saying 180/190 bhp possible?
I know the punto abarth has 180bhp, is that running the same engine + different map?

 

[loveshandbags]

Thanks for the reply, I really liked the sound of the Monza exhaust so i think I will opt for that and try find a way of protecting it :-S.
As for the options, I have a reasonable budget, anyone know how much the Koni's cost? I was thinking of the following spec:

- Esseesse kit
- Monza Exhaust
- Red leather
- Koni's??
- Sun roof of some type??
- Blue + Me Nav??

A few uncertainties above as I dont know the benefits or thoughts of owners of the car. Any help or pointers would be great
With regards to power I have also seen places saying 180/190 bhp possible?
I know the punto abarth has 180bhp, is that running the same engine + different map?

The turbo on the A500 is an IHI unlike the Garret item on the Punto which can run higher boost IIRC 1.5 bar. Get the impression that 170-175bhp is the max on the IHI. To get the power up past 165bhp the Monza and a CAI seems to make a difference. Some have fitted the TMC piggyback chip despite having a esseesse chip in place.
FSDs cost around £525 shopping around. If you go for the esseesse kit at £2500 it is around another £700 for the FSDs to be fitted at the same time by Abarth - imagine the price would be negotiable. Setting up would be included in this.
Sabelts at £1,250 compared with £817 for the leather are also a good option but there are supposedly a little hard to sit on and impact a little on rear legroom. Plus no seat bags. Still they are a dealer option.
Sunroof - called the Skydome - impacts headroom - resonably priced but the glass roof is also a good option. Suggest specing Climate if you get the glass.
B&Me Nav - don't know much about it - some say it's not up to much. Tom Tom Blue & Me Live 2 seems to have taken over but sadly the 68R option port is not available on the A500 - boost guage is 'in the way'. Decent Garmin with life time updates would be a better option unless you like the interface and voice of the Tom Tom.

 

[jdas03]

Ah ok, the car till feels very quick even coming from a 260bhp S3, so i'm happy with the 160 bhp the ss offers.

Another consideration on the Monza exhaust front, what other exhausts do people fit in place of the Monza? Gtech was another one mentioned? Does this sound similar and have the valve technology that quietens it when you slow down? Just thinking about buying an Abarth without the monza and fitting something else if it rusts?
I have to be honest I haven't heard what the standard exhaust on the abarth sounds like, so that may do fine!

Thanks again

 

[J333EVO]

I've given the option on exhaust, the so far only exhaust to have proven performance gains shown by back to back runs on same rolling road. The turbo back BTB stainless steel by-pass exhaust. It has a proper boost activated waste gate type by-pass valve that opens once 0.5bar of boost is reached, not the flap on the Monza that works when enough exhaust gases push it open.

Personally speaking I wouldn't buy any German made TuV rated performance product as TuV means it is not allowed to extract more than a preset % power increase, therefore any product that makes good gains fails TuV.

 

[toeknee1]

I got the BTB exhaust as I didn't like the twin design of the monza or the fact it was mild steel for the same price as a stainless unit,the BTB works on the same principle of a by pass valve and sounds brilliant

 

[VeinsInMyAcid]

toeknee1,

would you have a video or sound sample of your setup?
it looks really good

 

[toeknee1]

toeknee1,

would you have a video or sound sample of your setup?
it looks really good

its not mine but found this on youtube

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PRl9ZnoQad0&feature=youtu.be

The BTB Abarth 500 by-pass system

This exhaust is made from 63.5mm T304 tubing throughout, and uniquely features a boost operated valve which allows the exhaust gases to by-pass the transverse silencer thereby minimising back-pressure in the exhaust and allowing the turbo to spool up more quickly for maximum performance.

Whilst cruising on part throttle, the valve remains shut thereby activating the chambered silencer ensuring that there is no intrusive boom inside the car. The by-pass valve can be easily disengaged if the car is used at noise sensitive track days.

 

[Stuart J]

Re the SS kit, we thought long & hard before buying the car, tried the SS'd & nonSS'd cars & found the ride plenty hard enough in the std car so opted for the non SS & had it remapped later. Dealers wont do this but there are enough that will. We just opted for loading the SS map rather than a bespoke job. The std suspension & brakes are more than enough for the power the car puts out, we havent had issues when it was tracked & also on enthusiastic trips through Europe. I have always found spirited decents of Mountains is the real tester for brakes, far worse than track time. We did a 4000 mile car run through Europe in a week, loads of mountains, the Mille Miglia etc, 10 countries in all, never had any handling or braking issues apart from some instability when braking at very high speeds but thats an issue they can all have, we kept up with some cars that on paper were a lot quicker in the mountains & overall it was a good trip. I think harder suspension would really have taken the edge off of the overall experience but it has to be personal choice.

 

[loveshandbags]

Re the SS kit, we thought long & hard before buying the car, tried the SS'd & nonSS'd cars & found the ride plenty hard enough in the std car so opted for the non SS & had it remapped later. Dealers wont do this but there are enough that will. We just opted for loading the SS map rather than a bespoke job. The std suspension & brakes are more than enough for the power the car puts out, we havent had issues when it was tracked & also on enthusiastic trips through Europe. I have always found spirited decents of Mountains is the real tester for brakes, far worse than track time. We did a 4000 mile car run through Europe in a week, loads of mountains, the Mille Miglia etc, 10 countries in all, never had any handling or braking issues apart from some instability when braking at very high speeds but thats an issue they can all have, we kept up with some cars that on paper were a lot quicker in the mountains & overall it was a good trip. I think harder suspension would really have taken the edge off of the overall experience but it has to be personal choice.

With a 4K European trip it sounds like you picked the right set of 'hardness' in the suspension setup. It's one thing to go for a blast up the road and another to sit in it day after day. So that's a good recommendation.

The BTB Abarth 500 by-pass system

This exhaust is made from 63.5mm T304 tubing throughout, and uniquely features a boost operated valve which allows the exhaust gases to by-pass the transverse silencer thereby minimising back-pressure in the exhaust and allowing the turbo to spool up more quickly for maximum performance.

Whilst cruising on part throttle, the valve remains shut thereby activating the chambered silencer ensuring that there is no intrusive boom inside the car. The by-pass valve can be easily disengaged if the car is used at noise sensitive track days.

Checked out the gains mentioned by J333EVO on a RR graph. End result looks disappointing for a near £1K payout but mid-range looks healthy. Graph came from here. (A500 appears to have been TMC'd). Can't help thinking that you would be better off with the standard exhaust setup and buy a 'spare' one off ebay when the standard one starts to blow.
https://www.fiatforum.com/abarth-500/271237-standard-exhaust-good-enough-me.html

 

[J333EVO]

OK couple of things, the 500 in the video is my father-in-laws with the prototype BTB, & the graph is his as well. The car is not TMC'd as not a fan of add on box's that trick ECU into giving extra boost, it runs the SS map which is on the standard ECU.

And the gains are amazing for just an exhaust, over 10lbft extra is available from roughly 3000-4750rpm and roughly 10bhp more from 3750-4750rpm pretty much ideally where you want it. 18lbft more torque at peak. Yes peak bhp isn't up much but that's the limits of the standard tiny asthmatic turbo which runs out of puff at about 5200rpm.

It has been demonstrated that the turbo can make no more than 170-175ish & that's pushing it boost wise, yet the BTB extracted near maximum known power with no extra boost being used highlighting how effect it is over OEM.

The fit and finish are beautiful, something that can't be said for the OEM which nearly always sits on the ****, or the Monza where the 10 or so I've seen have the four pipes sits at all sorts of different angles to each other.

So pay £1000 for a stainless steel turbo back exhaust system with proven performance gains that will last the life of the car, or be removed and sold when moving car on and putting the OEM system back on or £700 for a mild steel back box that one have had the valve rust shut after only 6 months of use with negligible gains if at all.

Forgot to add, the standard brakes are not up to track work, fading quickly and getting longer as the day goes on, and that was limiting it to 5 laps, warm up, 3 flyers, cool down at Rockingham. Ok for most road work. And then there were the folk who managed to set theirs on fire!!!

 

[loveshandbags]

OK couple of things, the 500 in the video is my father-in-laws with the prototype BTB, & the graph is his as well. The car is not TMC'd as not a fan of add on box's that trick ECU into giving extra boost, it runs the SS map which is on the standard ECU.

And the gains are amazing for just an exhaust, over 10lbft extra is available from roughly 3000-4750rpm and roughly 10bhp more from 3750-4750rpm pretty much ideally where you want it. 18lbft more torque at peak. Yes peak bhp isn't up much but that's the limits of the standard tiny asthmatic turbo which runs out of puff at about 5200rpm.

It has been demonstrated that the turbo can make no more than 170-175ish & that's pushing it boost wise, yet the BTB extracted near maximum known power with no extra boost being used highlighting how effect it is over OEM.

The fit and finish are beautiful, something that can't be said for the OEM which nearly always sits on the ****, or the Monza where the 10 or so I've seen have the four pipes sits at all sorts of different angles to each other.

So pay £1000 for a stainless steel turbo back exhaust system with proven performance gains that will last the life of the car, or be removed and sold when moving car on and putting the OEM system back on or £700 for a mild steel back box that one have had the valve rust shut after only 6 months of use with negligible gains if at all.

Forgot to add, the standard brakes are not up to track work, fading quickly and getting longer as the day goes on, and that was limiting it to 5 laps, warm up, 3 flyers, cool down at Rockingham. Ok for most road work. And then there were the folk who managed to set theirs on fire!!!

I might have been a bit harsh saying that it wasn't value for money. Since you could take it off and re-use it that isn't too bad but where do you store the older exhaust ? It would be an interesting exercise to put in on a 695 and see if it gets more that the quoted 180bhp.
On that link I posted your father-in-law was asked if his car as an SS and he didn't give a straight answer so I incorrectly assumed he was running a TMC. The 'before' figure of 166bhp is the same as the TMC ones on the basis that all RRs give the same figures (which isn't of course true). Still it does look the business and is money better spend given that it should last given that it is made of stainless steel.
Since the exhaust is not TuV approved would this cause any problems with the insurance ?

 

[J333EVO]

Why would TuV make any difference in the UK for insurance purposes, it's a German standard. Anything that makes significant power over OEM instantly fails TuV, hence why even German manufacturers sell for off road use only the proper performance gaining products.

BTB did the original batch of 20 exhaust manifolds for the Lancia integrale EVO/16V which were sold through a very well respected German tuner who actually rebuilt new from factory integrales in small numbers with performance enhancements which are highly sought after models now, because it was the best you could get.

Store the old exhaust in the garage, garden shed or hallway lol but of course it's a consideration to anyone buying any aftermarket parts is storing the OEM parts to put back on for sale.

To give you an example the BTB for a Clio 182 is iirc £650 for ClioSport members but I know one sold this week 3rd hand for £420 within hours of being put up for sale. So 2 people have so far used & enjoyed its benefits, a 3rd is happy to pay 2/3 original value to get it, when you can buy new off the shelf Scorpion or Milltek for £350 shows you how highly regarded they are.