Glad to hear that it all went well, the wheels look really well on the car. Looking forward to hear the results of the rolling road.
General Big Fiat
- Thread starter nitrane.co.uk
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General Big Fiat
nitrane.co.uk said:
whats that in engish lol?
27 litres or so
Liam said:
Gotta agree with Liam, I love this car. The wheels look fantastic. You gonna take it to any Auto Italia shows next year?, I would love to see this car up close!
OP
OP
Duncan said:
Cheers! It'll almost certainly make an appearance at some point. There's also all the events i'll be doing - Croft, Teeside, Elvington, Olivers Mount, Harewood, 3 Sisters...
John
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Might have to go to harewood to have a good gander at the beast.
OP
OP
Just back from a full day at the Chip Wizards rolling road at Milnrow. Wayne's done a great job working on the map - finishing the day with peak power at 95bhp@7000rpm and peak torque 85lbft@4800rpm. As ever though, the headline numbers are slightly misleading, the real benefit is the excellent power curve and torque spread - particularly as I've got hillclimbs in mind.
I've learned a few things too. First the GSR induction kit inhibited power beyond about 70bhp - mainly this is due to the 899 bob being too close to the top of the TB, but also the size of the pipe (38mm compared with the 43mm Tricker TB). So I need to fabricate a bespoke plenum to fit on top of the TB to assist air flow. Watch this space.
Also Wayne assures me that although the Marelli ecu does have a small learning capability, this is limited to adjustments to idle speed and lambda readings. It has no effect on the base map, particularly with regard to full throttle fueling and timing.
The engine still only has 500 miles on the clock (100 of which were done on the rolling road) so more performance will be released simply by the engine loosening up. Wayne's view is that further power is inhibited by the 75 inlet manifold design, and that a bespoke plenum/TB set-up is probably required - interestingly the ECU would happily support this.
I can now concentrate on the large number of small jobs that i've got to do before next season such as the fitting the shift light, refurbishing the rear suspension, rerouting the brake/fuel lines, and fabricating a lightweight bonnet/boot. All of which I can do because the BIG job is out of the way.
Oh and finally... it's chuffing quick
John
I've learned a few things too. First the GSR induction kit inhibited power beyond about 70bhp - mainly this is due to the 899 bob being too close to the top of the TB, but also the size of the pipe (38mm compared with the 43mm Tricker TB). So I need to fabricate a bespoke plenum to fit on top of the TB to assist air flow. Watch this space.
Also Wayne assures me that although the Marelli ecu does have a small learning capability, this is limited to adjustments to idle speed and lambda readings. It has no effect on the base map, particularly with regard to full throttle fueling and timing.
The engine still only has 500 miles on the clock (100 of which were done on the rolling road) so more performance will be released simply by the engine loosening up. Wayne's view is that further power is inhibited by the 75 inlet manifold design, and that a bespoke plenum/TB set-up is probably required - interestingly the ECU would happily support this.
I can now concentrate on the large number of small jobs that i've got to do before next season such as the fitting the shift light, refurbishing the rear suspension, rerouting the brake/fuel lines, and fabricating a lightweight bonnet/boot. All of which I can do because the BIG job is out of the way.
Oh and finally... it's chuffing quick
John
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Thats a great result. Is it 69bhp at wheels from that graph so i can work out approx transmission loss in percentage.
The only reason I ask is I only have figures for my car at wheels 98bhp and 121lbs ft torque as the rolling road I use doesn't work out transmission loses unless you make over 100bhp at the wheels, so we only conservatory said it had 120bhp at fly using the method used by Puma Racing http://www.pumaracing.co.uk/coastdwn.htm of xxx bhp +10 divide by 0.9 so for mine 98 + 10 / 0.9 = 120bhp but using this method would give your car 69 + 10 / 0.9 = 88bhp.
I work out then from your figures that 69@ the wheels and 95 @ the fly is a transmission lose of 26bhp or 27%, so in theory if my car was losing 27% then its actually making some 134bhp at the fly.
I am in no way trying to lessen your achievements as I think they are great, just trying to work out closer what my car is making.
Aaron.
The only reason I ask is I only have figures for my car at wheels 98bhp and 121lbs ft torque as the rolling road I use doesn't work out transmission loses unless you make over 100bhp at the wheels, so we only conservatory said it had 120bhp at fly using the method used by Puma Racing http://www.pumaracing.co.uk/coastdwn.htm of xxx bhp +10 divide by 0.9 so for mine 98 + 10 / 0.9 = 120bhp but using this method would give your car 69 + 10 / 0.9 = 88bhp.
I work out then from your figures that 69@ the wheels and 95 @ the fly is a transmission lose of 26bhp or 27%, so in theory if my car was losing 27% then its actually making some 134bhp at the fly.
I am in no way trying to lessen your achievements as I think they are great, just trying to work out closer what my car is making.
Aaron.
OP
OP
You can't read the exact results from the graph as the print's not great. However my printout shows 74bhp at the wheels.
Transmission loss is calculated at the time on the rolling road. The line at the bottom is plotted on deceleration from vmax (120mph! ), and is added to the 'at the wheels' value to come up with the 'at the flywheel' value... if that makes sense.
As you say, a great result, with more to come!
John
Transmission loss is calculated at the time on the rolling road. The line at the bottom is plotted on deceleration from vmax (120mph!
), and is added to the 'at the wheels' value to come up with the 'at the flywheel' value... if that makes sense.As you say, a great result, with more to come!
John
Yeah I know how they are calculated, just wanted to know what they were saying yours lost, so using Puma Racings meathod its 74 + 10 / 0.9 = 93bhp, not bad at all, thats some 84bhp per litre which is good for a N/A engine.
Aaron.
Aaron.
Hey john, nice progress, you were only about 20miles or so from me when you went for your blast the other day through cumbria! Kirkstone pass is legend isnt it, i love it. Should stopped and got some good photos of the scenery with your car - another excuse to take it out sometime
Jordan
Jordan
OP
OP
A&R Jordan said:Should stopped and got some good photos of the scenery with your car - another excuse to take it out sometime
I would have done, but the weather was lousy! Heavy hanging mist/drizzle, you can imagine what the road alongside Ullswater was like! Incidentally that's a scary road isn't? The lake lapping alongside the road... made me hope i'd bolted that front suspension up properly!
John
OP
OP
Been busy over xmas with some odds and sods...
The interior is making progress, the instrument cluster cover is now flocked 'rally car' style and the OMEX shiftlight is in and working. The flocking was right pain in the @rse involving one abortive attempt (cheers for the backup Gaz!), the second effort being satiscraptory. For those that haven't done it, flocking is a coating of fine nylon fibres giving a sort of suedey-material effect. Rally cars and race cars have it to reduce glare. You can buy a kit comprising the glue and flock material for DIY application, although the pro-jobs use a 60,000V static charge to improve the coverage - which is what we used. The problem is getting the right coverage of glue, which appears to be trial and error.
In addition to that, i've now got oil temp and pressure gauges neatly installed in place of the central air vents (can't think where I got that idea...) and its all plumbed and working.
Also changed the gearbox oil, using a cunning trick to get the oil in via an open bottle and tube. Made a fiddly job very easy. The syncro into 3rd is now a lot quieter.
Next job is rebuilding the rear suspension, the exhaust is being fettled at Wunoff next week, and the enlarged airbox is being fabricated. First outing looks to be a shakedown track day in Feb, maybe Teeside we'll see. First sprint is the British Championship round at Croft in April
Cheers, John
The interior is making progress, the instrument cluster cover is now flocked 'rally car' style and the OMEX shiftlight is in and working. The flocking was right pain in the @rse involving one abortive attempt (cheers for the backup Gaz!), the second effort being satiscraptory. For those that haven't done it, flocking is a coating of fine nylon fibres giving a sort of suedey-material effect. Rally cars and race cars have it to reduce glare. You can buy a kit comprising the glue and flock material for DIY application, although the pro-jobs use a 60,000V static charge to improve the coverage - which is what we used. The problem is getting the right coverage of glue, which appears to be trial and error.
In addition to that, i've now got oil temp and pressure gauges neatly installed in place of the central air vents (can't think where I got that idea...) and its all plumbed and working.
Also changed the gearbox oil, using a cunning trick to get the oil in via an open bottle and tube. Made a fiddly job very easy. The syncro into 3rd is now a lot quieter.
Next job is rebuilding the rear suspension, the exhaust is being fettled at Wunoff next week, and the enlarged airbox is being fabricated. First outing looks to be a shakedown track day in Feb, maybe Teeside we'll see. First sprint is the British Championship round at Croft in April
Cheers, John
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Looking good, yes dials in central vents is a great place for them, as is a flocked dash, i did mine with eth kit from Frost and it was really easy and the result was really good, only cost £15 or something. I found a decent soft bristle brush from an art shop about 1/4 inch was ideal made getting an even coat of glue easier.
http://www.frost.co.uk/item_Detail.asp?productID=8388&frostProductName=dummy
also did center consol tho you don't have/need that any more
http://www.frost.co.uk/item_Detail.asp?productID=8388&frostProductName=dummy
also did center consol tho you don't have/need that any more
John, just been looking a the website again and the pictures and ivegot to say, the attention to detail on the car really does stil grab me, beautiful job
Jordan
Jordan
OP
OP
Cheers Jordan.
As for the flock, well it feels quite durable. I suspect I haven't done as good a job as Aaron, but its looks pretty good anyway.
There'll be another update soon... all the rear suspension is off at the moment for coating and nylon bushes. The brakes lines now run inside.
First outing - Cadwell track day Feb 17
John
As for the flock, well it feels quite durable. I suspect I haven't done as good a job as Aaron, but its looks pretty good anyway.
There'll be another update soon... all the rear suspension is off at the moment for coating and nylon bushes. The brakes lines now run inside.
First outing - Cadwell track day Feb 17
John
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OP
OP
The last of the big jobs was finished this week. All the rear suspension/brakes has been overhauled i.e. new bushes, powdercoated, wheel cylinders etc. The rear brakelines are now run inside in anticipation of doing some stage rallying at some point maybe.
All of this was made easier by the car being on its new trailer, giving better access underneath.
So just the new airbox to fit and some odds & sods before the season starts. Speaking of which, the provisional dates have been announced for the 'Yorkshire Speed Hillclimb & Sprint Championship'...
9th April Croft - Sprint
5th May Oliver's Mount - Hill Climb
6th May Oliver's Mount - Hill Climb
28th May Teesside Autodrome - Sprint
3rd June Harewood - Hill Climb
16th June Cadwell Park - Sprint
21st July Elvington Park - Sprint
12th August Oliver's Mount - Hill Climb
27th August Teesside Autodrome - Sprint
9th September Elvington Park - Sprint
29th September Three Sisters - Sprint
Bets 9 rounds to count. The first test for the car will be a track day at Cadwell on the 17th Feb, followed by an outing at Teeside. Both will be used to sort out suspension settings on fast and slow circuits respectively.
Bring it on
John
All of this was made easier by the car being on its new trailer, giving better access underneath.
So just the new airbox to fit and some odds & sods before the season starts. Speaking of which, the provisional dates have been announced for the 'Yorkshire Speed Hillclimb & Sprint Championship'...
9th April Croft - Sprint
5th May Oliver's Mount - Hill Climb
6th May Oliver's Mount - Hill Climb
28th May Teesside Autodrome - Sprint
3rd June Harewood - Hill Climb
16th June Cadwell Park - Sprint
21st July Elvington Park - Sprint
12th August Oliver's Mount - Hill Climb
27th August Teesside Autodrome - Sprint
9th September Elvington Park - Sprint
29th September Three Sisters - Sprint
Bets 9 rounds to count. The first test for the car will be a track day at Cadwell on the 17th Feb, followed by an outing at Teeside. Both will be used to sort out suspension settings on fast and slow circuits respectively.
Bring it on
John
Nice alternative to car ramps John!
Liam
Liam
DJ_Bucho
Established member
Extremely nice work their John, keep up the excellent work.
Glad you've kept ya website updated with yet more pictures as well, keep um coming.
Hope to get a chance to see you in action at some point this year.
Brian
Glad you've kept ya website updated with yet more pictures as well, keep um coming
.Hope to get a chance to see you in action at some point this year.
Brian
