Technical best way to remove driveshaft

[RichyLJ69]

Hello, I have recently purchased a Panda 2011 1.2 Active which has been an eventful experience!! Just as I sort one problem out another seems to raise it's head!
Anyway, I have read that the driveshafts can be a bit stubborn to remove from the diff/gearbox end, probably requiring a pry bar. The Haynes manual recommends removing the 2 bolts holding the hub to the bottom of the suspension strut and also the tie rod ball joint. Then pivot the hub away to allow the driveshaft to be removed from the hub end. I have also seen a gentleman on You Tube (admittedly this was on a punto) just undo the pinch bolt on the lower ball joint and seperate the hub from the lower control arm (think it's called that). This also seemed to allow enough room for the driveshaft to be removed from the hub. Just wondering if any folk have undertaken this job and their preferred method. Thanks very much. Richard.

 

[rmjbn1]

I have a query about CV boots...

I reported above that I had to buy another set as the ones I'd been provided were wrong.

I took the 'wrong' ones back and they said they are universal stretchy boots so should be fine (refunded anyway).

Is this really a thing? They were very loose around the shaft and the joint. I don't think I'd have been happy trying to pinch them tight with clips.

These are what I took back: https://motaquip.com/cv-boots/

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

I have a query about CV boots...

I reported above that I had to buy another set as the ones I'd been provided were wrong.

I took the 'wrong' ones back and they said they are universal stretchy boots so should be fine (refunded anyway).

Is this really a thing? They were very loose around the shaft and the joint. I don't think I'd have been happy trying to pinch them tight with clips.

These are what I took back: https://motaquip.com/cv-boots/

Aye, universal fit boots. They never seem to be a "proper" fit and I don't like them. Don't like "split" boots either (the type which is split down the side and so you can fit them by cutting off the old boot, fitting the new one and glueing it up down the side. Genuine or OE boots only for me ! I tried "stretchy" boots once. A friend in the trade lent me the conical stretchy tool and gave me a boot to try. The tool fits over the outer end of the CV joint and this expands it as you push the boot over it with expanding fingers. I found it quite a struggle and, as it expands the inner end of the boot (which is only the diameter of the drive shaft) I was worried it might strain the boot too much. Needless to say it worked but as I like to always clean out and regrease the CV - which is easier if you remove the joint from the shaft, I'll just keep doing them the way I've always done them. Biggest ptoblem I've found of late is that newer type boots seem to be made of a different material? Still looks like the older and softer rubber type but is much less compliant (stiffer) so the securing bands, especially the larger one which fits to the outside of the CV itself, needs a tool which cinches it up much tighter than is needed with the older rubber boots. trying to tension it with pliers etc just doesn't seem to get the job done and they end up leaking or even pulling off at full lock.

 

[rmjbn1]

Thank you Jock, I feel more justified in returning them now. I don't think I'd have felt happy about those oversized boots flapping about.

'Universal' they may be, but perhaps most cars have slightly beefier driveshafts than our Pandas

 

[rmjbn1]

On another note, it's still knocking on right lock.

Which I expected as I've only changed the boots and seals.

I'm fairly certain the knocking is caused by a groove worn in an inner CV / plunge joint when it threw out its grease.

Is this something I should replace urgently? Can it cause damage to the spider / tripod? Or can I put up with it till I get round to other jobs planned for its next service?

I also notice that most inner CV joints come with a new spider. Is it normal practice to replace both at the same time?

 

[rmjbn1]

Hello?

 

[DaveMcT]

You say "knocking" on full lock. A worn CV joint will click as the balls run up against the wear groove. A knock (deeper noise) sound be anything and really should be investigated.

 

[rmjbn1]

Thanks for the reply Dave!
I've had my driveshafts out (to replace cv boots) and found this groove worn in one inner plunge joint:

You're right it could be a few things, but outer cv joints seem OK, gave everything a good push and pull, wishbones are a few years old, new MOT, so I've no reason to suspect anything else at present.

Noise seems consistent with what I've found on the plunge joint so I thought I'd start there.

 

[DaveMcT]

A wear groove deep enough to click will be easy to feel when you run a finger down the bearing groove. The outer joints are not silly expensive so might as well replace. Inner joints can go bad when the car is used with a broken rubber boot. I had one that was enough to cause slight play but it never caused a noise or any problem. New shafts are not cheap so look after the inner boots.

 

[rmjbn1]

A wear groove deep enough to click will be easy to feel when you run a finger down the bearing groove.

Yes, I could when I had it off the car.

Inner joints can go bad when the car is used with a broken rubber boot.

Guilty I'm afraid :/ I'm kicking myself for not catching it sooner.

I'm committed to changing the damaged inner shaft and hope that cures the knocking (but I'm aware that could be something else).

Cost isn't too bad (for once!) in ROI


Just wondering if it's urgent and I need to bump it up my to-do list (currently replacing a roof in my free time), and if I should replace the spider/tripod on the shaft at the same time?

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

Yes, I could when I had it off the car.

Guilty I'm afraid :/ I'm kicking myself for not catching it sooner.

I'm committed to changing the damaged inner shaft and hope that cures the knocking (but I'm aware that could be something else).

Cost isn't too bad (for once!) in ROI
View attachment 450832

Just wondering if it's urgent and I need to bump it up my to-do list (currently replacing a roof in my free time), and if I should replace the spider/tripod on the shaft at the same time?

The kit looks as if it includes the spider and it's only held to the end of the shaft with a circlip so I think you'd be daft not to?

As to how urgently it needs done? Well, I'm a pessimist so I'd be doing it yesterday! However these inner joints don't articulate very much - not like the outer constant velocity joints do - so as long as you've cleaned it all out and regreased it and installed a new boot to protect it and aren't going on any long journeys and you're going to drive it gently then it'll probably see you for a while.

 

[DaveMcT]

My 100HP drivers side shaft has a wear notch and you can feel the radial play but it never made a sound. Driver could not feel any issue.
If yours is doing what I interpret as knocking - the whole CV joint is toast.
I have just found this on eBay. It looks like a complete inner CV joint by Magneti-Marelli.
EBay number 354923875049

My search was
fiat panda 500 inner cv joint -boot

 

[rmjbn1]

Thank you Jock and Dave Knocking could be described as clicking, not a deep knock and only happens manoeuvering on full lock, not under normal driving conditions.

So although drop links and top mounts are fairly ancient I don't suspect them.. yet

I've had all four inner and outer joints stripped and cleaned on the bench, and that one inner plunge joint is the only sign of damage I found, so I'll replace that with its spider and see if that improves it.

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

Thank you Jock and Dave Knocking could be described as clicking, not a deep knock and only happens manoeuvering on full lock, not under normal driving conditions.

So although drop links and top mounts are fairly ancient I don't suspect them.. yet

I've had all four inner and outer joints stripped and cleaned on the bench, and that one inner plunge joint is the only sign of damage I found, so I'll replace that with its spider and see if that improves it.

Hmm? Clicking on full lock is text book symptomatic of an outer constant velocity joint. Of course, as you've found the wear on that inner joint, it needs to be replaced but it'll be interesting to find out if it's still clicking on full lock with the new joint fitted. One wee "tip" regarding diagnosing outer CV joints. Pulling away from a standstill on full lock often makes it click the loudest and try doing it first with full lock one way then the other. If it's an outer joint (CV) then you'll very likely find it's louder on one lock than the other. Listen for which way is the loudest and it'll be the joint on that side which is the culprit. So If it's more noisy on full left lock than on right lock, then it's the joint on the left front wheel (passenger side) which is at fault.

The reason for doing it on full lock is that on full lock the balls will be traversing the grooves from one limit to the other compared to when traveling in a straight line when the balls hardly move in their grooves at all. So if there's a worn bit in the groove - most often around the ball position when steering is straight as that's where the balls are for most of their operational life - then the balls "click" as they roll over the imperfection/indentation.

 

[bugsymike]

Going back to the earlier bit about stretchy boots etc, I believe it was Peugeot/Renault that first instigated that.
I recall in the mid 80s having to take drive shafts to the dealer to fit boots as the joints had a strange knuckle about the size of a small fist that even with all the bearings,clips buffer and spring removed it was still impossible to fit a normal CV boot over it.
There was a horrible three pronged clip that had to be sprung into place afterwards which was a nightmare too.
However the dealer had a special trumpet shape tool made from stainless steel rods, which with shaft in a vice had to be well lubricated and the genuine CV boot had to be slide up and down the tool until it was ready with a lot of force to slide over the fixed knuckle. It was the forerunner of the plastic cones you now see and the "stretchable" CV boots.
You had to use their genuine CV boots as factors ones always split with the amount of stretch they had to do.
In one of my auction visits the local water board was closing their Renault workshop side and I bought the genuine cone tool for the Renault Masters along with the square tool for checking their gearbox oils.
I have used it many times over the years and on smaller shafts with a bit of a fiddle.

 

[DaveMcT]

As always buyer beware, but £60 for the full shaft with both CV joints looks like a bargain.

FITS FIAT PANDA 1.2-1.4-1.3-D-MULTIJET DRIVESHAFT OFF/SIDE 2003>ONWARDS | eBay

BRAND NEW 2 YEAR WARRANTY THE PICTURE IS THE ACTUAL ITEM Contents - New Driveshaft 2 year warranty.

www.ebay.co.uk

 

[koalar]

The advert looks wrong to me

Offside drives shafts are different between the

1.1/1.2
1.3
And 1.4

Not only are the lengths different some have different number of splines

 

[DaveMcT]

It looks too cheap (and probably too short for the RHS) but worth quizzing the seller.