Anyone used Motoflow magnetic fuel conditioner?

[Shadeyman]

and the bonus of it smelling like a chip shop :yum:

I cant say as I've notice any smell at all when runing Bio-Diesel. Although I'm told the Bio I buy is made from brand new oil. If there hasn't been any chips in the oil I dont suppose it will smell of chips?

I wonder if I could cook some Guinness in some oil then run the car on it. What a great smell that would be ...

 

[ChrisUK]

You'll only smell it when your running Veg Oil not "Bio Diesel". You need 70%+ blend to smell the vegi goodness . My mates pug smelt like dinky donuts :slayer:.

 

[Shadeyman]

You'll only smell it when your running Veg Oil not "Bio Diesel". You need 70%+ blend to smell the vegi goodness . My mates pug smelt like dinky donuts :slayer:.

So people are actually putting used untreated veg oil straight into there cars and thats what makes it smell like chips?

I thought you had to treat it first and once veg oil(used or unused) was treated it was then Bio-Diesel?

The stuff I buy is 100% Bio-Diesl made from new veg oil, or so the guy says. I've never smelt anything at all when running it.

 

[ChrisUK]

No certain cars you can put it in straight .

 

[sludgeguts]

So people are actually putting used untreated veg oil straight into there cars and thats what makes it smell like chips?

I thought you had to treat it first and once veg oil(used or unused) was treated it was then Bio-Diesel?

The stuff I buy is 100% Bio-Diesl made from new veg oil, or so the guy says. I've never smelt anything at all when running it.

If the guy dumps used veg oil through a top end centrifuge it will spin out everything heavier - even used sump oil comes out looking like brand new oil.

 

[GrandeGuy]

So people are actually putting used untreated veg oil straight into there cars and thats what makes it smell like chips?

I thought you had to treat it first and once veg oil(used or unused) was treated it was then Bio-Diesel?

The stuff I buy is 100% Bio-Diesl made from new veg oil, or so the guy says. I've never smelt anything at all when running it.

The old mechanical fuel injection can take it, but i wouldn't go putting it into a common rail system or car with a cat.
If you run new or reclaimed oil make sure you add acetone to stop gumming up of the injectors etc but watered down with diesel is always better.

I was at engineering collage the same time as developing bio diesel.
http://savingplanetearth.co.uk/fishchips.htm
http://savingplanetearth.co.uk/Millennium.html
http://savingplanetearth.co.uk/Project.htm

 

[DaveMcT]

!!! ALL THIS IS AT YOUR OWN RISK !!!
!!! IF YOU BLOW UP YOUR HOUSE OR CAR ITS YOUR OWN FAULT !!!​

I have manufactured biodiesel and it works just like normal fuel. In a VW TDI driving carefully the bio gave slightly better mpg. Driving normal to quick it gave about 5% less mpg than normal. The latter was reasonable because the biofuel has about 5% less energy value than normal diesel (using year 2000 fuels it was). The catalysed exhaust was totally smell free nothing and the engine ran so smooth it (almost) sounded like a non diesel. Non catalysed exhaust has a slightly chippy smell but not anywhere as bad as an engine running neat vege oil.

Biodiesel contains oxygen locked into the molecules which is released when its heated & burnt so the fuel ignites more smoothly than dino (dead dinosaur) diesel. That explains the better constant throttle economy. The cetane number is a fair bit higher than petrodiesel so there is less diesel clatter.

Its made using a process similar to soap with caustic soda. But instead of water the oil must be totally dry and 15% methanol is added. The extracts the heavy glycerols from the oil and creates a methy ester which is lighter and more consistent burning.

The biggest problem is drying the source waste oil and washing the residual caustic out of the fuel. I used a bubble system over water but a fine mist water spray has been found to be easier and just as good.

It can be made in a 2 litre coke bottle

The manufacturing process for waste oils and animal fats is more complex but basically the same.

1. Mix up 150ml of methanol CH3OH** with 4g of caustic soda (NaOH) and mix VERY VERY CAREFULLY. This stuff will burn in seconds and makes paint stripper lool like fairy liquid!
   
2. Heat 1 litre of unused veg oil to 50 degs C (no more no less) and pour into the coke bottle.
   
3. Pour in the caustic methanol mixture, screw on the cap and shake the coke bottle for 2 minutes/ Leave to stand for an hour or so.
   
4. The glycerols settle to the bottom of the bottle with the biodlesel on top. It must be washed before it can be used in the car as it still has a high pH.
   
5. Pour off the BioD and use it as a cleaning solvent. To wash it, use more coke bottles with 500ml of water and the litre of BioD. Slowly swill the biodiesel and water mix. The water will draw out the caustic. Use 3 separate water changes and the stuff is fit for the car. Do not over agitate or you will make soap.

Large batches are done in plastic barrels with power mixers, pumps. etc.

** This is where the biodiesel gets its oxygen content. Each ester chain is capped with an OH ion.

The left over glycerols are very caustic but add water and they become an excellent soap.

Snags:

• Biodiesel has great solvent abilities. It will turn silicone rubber hard and frees seized bolts amazingly well. Its ok on modern engines as they have to comply with today's 5% bio content of diesel fuels.
• It will damage rubber seals and pipes in older vehicles.
• It also cleans out the diesel fuel tank which will have a layer of waxes and debris on the bottom. That will clog pipes and filters so for older cars the fuel tank must be pre-cleaned out or replaced with new.
• Pure biodiesel gels at around 0 degs C so some sort of trace heating on fuel pipes & filter is needed for heavy cold winters.

!!! ALL THIS IS AT YOUR OWN RISK !!!
!!! IF YOU BLOW UP YOUR HOUSE OR CAR ITS YOUR OWN FAULT !!!​

 

[sludgeguts]

That's a lot of fannying around. I cold filter down to 1 micron, mix in 3% petrol & go.
Had a couple of starting problems earlier in the year when the overnights were below zero but it was my own fault for adding WVO too soon.

Anyhow, back to the OP.
Sans magnet I was returning 38 - 39mpg according to fuelly.
As the price of diesel was rocketing, I decided to go for a blend of veg oil, so chucked in 10litres - with hindsight, this was too much, too soon. I should have left it a few more weeks and started with a 5litre blend.
Oh well, live and learn. Had to chuck in some jet cleaner & thrash the engine.
But surprisingly, my next fuelly showed an improvement in mpg - I was now getting 41mpg from my now 10litre blend (2gallon veg to 8 of dino).
Becasue of the starting problems (waxing in the jets?) I decided to cut down my veg to 5litre & put the magnets back on - they had been off long enough.
Still on 5litre veg I notice my fuel economy rise, by the second fill I was returning 45mpg.
Now the weather is warmer, as soon as I have space in my tank, it's getting 20litres veg oil - so a mix of 4 gallon veg to 6 of dino.

 

[chaos]

That's a lot of fannying around.

Yes but you don't use biodiesel. Stop trying to confuse people.

 

[DaveMcT]

My brother swears by the fuel "catalysts" which probably do similar things
Not these but similar as its a WW2 idea so well out of patent

Personally I think they only work on contant throttle at fairly low speeds. Once power is need the benefits seem fall away.

 

[Shadeyman]

I use 100% Bio-Diesel except when the temp drops below 3C. Been using it for about 8 months now. There's a small power loss but I compensated for that by installing a tuning box. Engine is quieter, immissions are very low, as my recent MOT proved(even with the Tuning box installed and the EGR blanked off).

I pay 90p a litre, so I get an extra 12 litres for every £30 of Bio(compared to Dino) I put in the tank. So since using Bio I've had an extra 420(about 92 gallons) litres, taking into consideration the few weeks I had to revert to dino due to cold weather.

Our car averages 45 to the gallon(heavy urban mostly) so I've done about 4140 miles for free in the 8 months I've been using Bio. Well worth a small loss of power.

 

[Doofer]

My brother swears by the fuel "catalysts" which probably do similar things
Not these but similar as its a WW2 idea so well out of patent

Personally I think they only work on contant throttle at fairly low speeds. Once power is need the benefits seem fall away.

So why don't Ford, Vauxhall etc all fit them as standard? (cue oil company conspiracy theories)

That website has scam and bad science written all over it - "it keeps fuel fresh".

 

[Focus Owner]

So why don't Ford, Vauxhall etc all fit them as standard? (cue oil company conspiracy theories)

That website has scam and bad science written all over it - "it keeps fuel fresh".

fuel does go off tho

 

[sludgeguts]

Yes but you don't use biodiesel. Stop trying to confuse people.

I thought my post was clear about what I use. I still maintain it is a lot of messing about. All I do is cold filter down to 1 micron and add 3% petrol.
Today's journey saw me adding 5 gallons wvo and 2 of BPultra to fill too the brim. 300 miles later and I filled my tank to the brim again.
Although I only returned 48mpg on this run I was driving at a constant 70 (with the odd foray into the 80s to overtake) with the aircon on nice and cold & the music turned up. - it's a good feeling when you realise that you only paid for 60 miles' motoring. At £6.75/gallon for the ultra that's about £9

So why don't Ford, Vauxhall etc all fit them as standard? (cue oil company conspiracy theories)

That website has scam and bad science written all over it - "it keeps fuel fresh".

When leaded petrol was being phased out, some cars could cope with unleaded, others had to be tinkered with - sometimes this was as simple as adjusting the timing, others it meant a new top on the lump. At the time I had an old Metro & seemingly they wouldn't take any adjustments and a new top end would cost more than the car was worth. However, the mech did recommend dropping a catalyst into the fuel tank. The small print harped on about WW2 tech & this thing being used to get some old planes running on non standard juice. i have to say that by the third tankful all the pinking was gone & the engine seemed to have a new lease of life - it seemed better than ever.

I guess there will always be people out there who poo-poo anything like this (even though they have never used one) - in much the same way as the many who swear on their granny's life that magnets cannot possibly have any effect on fuel.

 

[ChrisUK]

fuel does go off tho

Yes after 12months+ of sitting still maybe.

 

[sludgeguts]

Yes after 12months+ of sitting still maybe.

Quite a common problem with the old Metro was a build up of residue in the carb bowl, eventually this would find its way to the jets & you'd end up with all sorts of problems.
It was the same sort of residue you'd find in the bottom of the fuel can after it's been sitting around for months on end.

 

[chaos]

I thought my post was clear about what I use.

All you do continually is imply that your method produces biodiesel when that is simply not the case. People who are less knowledgable in the subject can be easily confused by your statements.

 

[cushioncreeper]

All you do continually is imply that your method produces biodiesel when that is simply not the case. People who are less knowledgable in the subject can be easily confused by your statements.

To be fair to sludge, I've been following his posts since he started using wvo, we have the same motor but I've been blending wvo far longer.
I can't say that I've noticed where he implies the use of bio (although I'm not always on here) or that simply filtering waste veg turns it into bio.

 

[DaveMcT]

I agree those "fuel conditioner" website really do overstate their case

However, my bro has run a Fiat Uno in Italy with one since the early 1990s. It passed evey "MOT" with flying colours and emissions were so low the tester had to use his own car to get the machine to recognise anything. The Uno eventually got scrapped when pre Euro 2 became illegal in Italian roads.

It was the same with his Aprilia Pegaso bike. It ran rich from new (common fault) but the fuel catalysts allowed it to cope. He eventually stripped the carbs and solved the fault then he had the same problems with MOT tests. Emissions were too clean.

Maybe these things are bunkum but he's not complaining. One thing though he does drive very smoothly. He's not slow but he doesn't boot it hard very often.

He also uses one in an MZ250. For a clanky old stroker its very quiet and fuel use isnt bad either.