hmmmmm.... whats that smell?? is it horse?? no, is it cow?? no. I know, its.........
Technical angel tuned and bmc cda speedgear rolling roaded
- Thread starter dave
- Start date
Currently reading:
Technical angel tuned and bmc cda speedgear rolling roaded
Unfortunately I had been alerted to this thread whilst out on the road and tried vainly to write a response but it kept crapping out, so the reply was not finished.
The truth is.
Angel Tuning used to use Millenium hardware on most of the cars we remapped. The mapping was purchased from Red Dot and at the time Red Dot didn't have a rolling road and we could only go by the information given to us by them on the output figures.
However, we realised after a while that after testing our own mapping and mapping supplied by other people that we could indeed do significantly better than we had been using so we ceased to trade with Red Dot. There was no animosity and both companies until recently had a healthy respect for each other and indeed assisted each other if required.
Over the past two years Red Dot have purchased a rolling road, and have improved their mapping no end, as have we. We also have a fixed and calibrated rolling road which we use whenever required.
The mapping we bought years ago from Red Dot is not of the standard we OR Red Dot have now as we have both moved on in considerable leaps and bounds. We have had to redevelop the mapping we bought from Red Dot and have continually evolved the mapping we use anyway, as do Red Dot.
This car in question on here has a Red Dot map on it. What else can I say? I have no excuse to make as I still believe that this car is better than it was when it was standard as Dave was impressed with the results when we programmed it. Nothing has changed. Unfortunately what people seem to miss is this is a test of how the car performs today. If we took the mapping back to standard what would the result be?
I am not slating Red Dot as they are a good company and their mapping is much improved, all I said was the fact is that the map on Dave's car is a Red Dot map and we now develop much better mapping which I am happy to do FOC. I am in no doubt that if Red Dot re-did the map they would also get much better results too.
One last point though, any test done on a competitors rolling road where they are calculating the drive train losses is going to be dubious at best. We know as we have taken cars from a calibrated chassis dyno test bed onto such a set up and found the results considerably different than they were. We also had a car tested last week where is only produced 4bhp more than the standard car that was also tested... only it was 2.4s quicker to 60mph - hmmm if we can get a car to 60 in 2.4s less with only a 4bhp increase then call the marketing boys in!
I would like to apologise to Red Dot for any comments made in a hurry and to you personally Peter as I didn’t realise you now worked for Red Dot.
Nigel
The truth is.
Angel Tuning used to use Millenium hardware on most of the cars we remapped. The mapping was purchased from Red Dot and at the time Red Dot didn't have a rolling road and we could only go by the information given to us by them on the output figures.
However, we realised after a while that after testing our own mapping and mapping supplied by other people that we could indeed do significantly better than we had been using so we ceased to trade with Red Dot. There was no animosity and both companies until recently had a healthy respect for each other and indeed assisted each other if required.
Over the past two years Red Dot have purchased a rolling road, and have improved their mapping no end, as have we. We also have a fixed and calibrated rolling road which we use whenever required.
The mapping we bought years ago from Red Dot is not of the standard we OR Red Dot have now as we have both moved on in considerable leaps and bounds. We have had to redevelop the mapping we bought from Red Dot and have continually evolved the mapping we use anyway, as do Red Dot.
This car in question on here has a Red Dot map on it. What else can I say? I have no excuse to make as I still believe that this car is better than it was when it was standard as Dave was impressed with the results when we programmed it. Nothing has changed. Unfortunately what people seem to miss is this is a test of how the car performs today. If we took the mapping back to standard what would the result be?
I am not slating Red Dot as they are a good company and their mapping is much improved, all I said was the fact is that the map on Dave's car is a Red Dot map and we now develop much better mapping which I am happy to do FOC. I am in no doubt that if Red Dot re-did the map they would also get much better results too.
One last point though, any test done on a competitors rolling road where they are calculating the drive train losses is going to be dubious at best. We know as we have taken cars from a calibrated chassis dyno test bed onto such a set up and found the results considerably different than they were. We also had a car tested last week where is only produced 4bhp more than the standard car that was also tested... only it was 2.4s quicker to 60mph - hmmm if we can get a car to 60 in 2.4s less with only a 4bhp increase then call the marketing boys in!
I would like to apologise to Red Dot for any comments made in a hurry and to you personally Peter as I didn’t realise you now worked for Red Dot.
Nigel
OP
OP
on this rr though the the drive train losses are factory set, and everyone says if any thing they are reading over, so i would have even less that the graph shows.
most are not worried if it read slightly over or under though as they are doing a before and after on the same machine so gains are still the same.
fiat forum also have a few staff at this place just to make sure everything was above board, and found no problems with the way it was used
most are not worried if it read slightly over or under though as they are doing a before and after on the same machine so gains are still the same.
fiat forum also have a few staff at this place just to make sure everything was above board, and found no problems with the way it was used
I know how it works as I have seen it in use in the past, unless they have bought a new one. I never said it was inaccurate either and just as you said the gains are what is important not the figure, and we dont know that for your car.
Drive train losses are around 15 - 18% at most, however with the speedgear it must be difficult to hold it in gear to get an accurate result and I honestly do not know what the losses are with that.
If your car produces 80bhp now, some 4 years after it was done then I would suggest that is considerably lost power over the years, your cat could have collapsed slightly, the filter could need cleaning, throttle body - a hundred different things. What I would say is though, when the mapping was first put on the car with a new filter, you agreed that is was much better than when it was standard and the mapping isn't going to have altered, so in my mind, regardless of who did the mapping, the reason its only hitting 80bhp is not becuase of it, far the opposite, I would think it reached as high as it did in thanks to it.
There was one guy on here some time ago who had the same combination that acheived 93bhp on an independant RR with a 1.2 16v manual, but again, we don't know what his produced to start with either.
OP
OP
ben and peter from club cento reckon the lossed of the rr are 26% 
my cat was new for mot in september old one was just a load of bits inside, couldnt even scrap it for cash, from when coil pack went and un burnt fuel got to it, i see hot red bits coming out behind me at the time
filter cleaned few weeks back. oil an plugs recently done
i haven't noticed any change in power since its been done, just people say how do i know what mine is running at as i had static map done, so whilst i was there thought why not see. was done in speedgear mode and sat in third ok as it displays it on the dash.
all the cars are done in 3rd, should i have pointed out that i have 7 gears? would a 7 speed need to be done in 4th
my cat was new for mot in september old one was just a load of bits inside, couldnt even scrap it for cash, from when coil pack went and un burnt fuel got to it, i see hot red bits coming out behind me at the time
filter cleaned few weeks back. oil an plugs recently done
i haven't noticed any change in power since its been done, just people say how do i know what mine is running at as i had static map done, so whilst i was there thought why not see. was done in speedgear mode and sat in third ok as it displays it on the dash.
all the cars are done in 3rd, should i have pointed out that i have 7 gears? would a 7 speed need to be done in 4th
ben and peter from club cento reckon the lossed of the rr are 26%
my cat was new for mot in september old one was just a load of bits inside, couldnt even scrap it for cash, from when coil pack went and un burnt fuel got to it, i see hot red bits coming out behind me at the time
filter cleaned few weeks back. oil an plugs recently done
i haven't noticed any change in power since its been done, just people say how do i know what mine is running at as i had static map done, so whilst i was there thought why not see. was done in speedgear mode and sat in third ok as it displays it on the dash.
all the cars are done in 3rd, should i have pointed out that i have 7 gears? would a 7 speed need to be done in 4th
Yikes, I dont think 26% is anywhere near right, 15% is more realistic. Trouble with gradual loss of power is its just that, gradual, you wouldnt notice it over 3 or so years. To be honest, we have never tested a speedgear on a rolling road so it would be a new experience! I did have a chat about it earlier and the general consensus of opinion amongst the tuning circles is just go by the at the wheel figures and try it in different gears. But again, its the difference, as long as the pre and post test are done the same, thats the important bit. It may well not have shown the true power in 3rd, but if you do the test of both std and mod in 3rd you would have an idea
Didnt you have a dead birdie in the intake of yours a few years back lol - maybe I am losing the plot though, after today - nothing would surprise me!
OP
OP
yeah had bird before, now intake is cable tied to the mesh, so hope another bird is not in there
Last edited:
regardless of overall power output, there is more to a remap than just a peak BHP figure. If the car doesn't feel any slower than it did before, but it was quicker and nicer to drive post remap than i don't see a problem. with full ignition/fuel control you can dramatically improve the useable torque range - which may not result in higher power being shown on a RR, but would still make a much more driveable car.
ben and peter from club cento reckon the lossed of the rr are 26%
That's a misquote from me there Dave
I said the loss used on Stu's car with the original graph I saw was mapped at 26% (though we then worked out we had calculated wrongly anyway - the new figure was 20.2%)
OP
OP
So what you going to do Dave? You going to take up Angels offer of a free remap? Or take your business elsewhere?
Cheers,
Alan
Cheers,
Alan
I have noticed a reacurring trend here from angel tuning they put the blame on red dot maps in another thread as well dealing with a JTD they say they also bought the map for that one as well ..sounds like a cop out if you ask me
After everyone's hail marry to Angel tuning, now you say you haven't check anything, not even on a rr, and saying that it sucks??? Why should I trust anyones oppinion then? I said something simmilar to this today...on another thread.
...and me
I dont know why are you confused?
I'm just saying you were betting money on this angel crap, and now you say it's no good, you did tests now??
And the publicity of GSR, how can I trust you it's the best option after this and another saying of moderator he's going on a beer with GSR owner so he'll ask him some stuff??
Like I was to open a website, get few sponsors, then advertise'em
Shrug or no shrug, some things are becoming obvious here, someone is colecting "donations" to say good abbout Fiat that sucks, and this tuning and bulls*ing
I'm just saying you were betting money on this angel crap, and now you say it's no good, you did tests now??
And the publicity of GSR, how can I trust you it's the best option after this and another saying of moderator he's going on a beer with GSR owner so he'll ask him some stuff??
Like I was to open a website, get few sponsors, then advertise'em
Shrug or no shrug, some things are becoming obvious here, someone is colecting "donations" to say good abbout Fiat that sucks, and this tuning and bulls*ing
so how are the forum in anyway connected with either of the companys you mention?
moderators who drive fiats are customers and paid money for services.
people are questioning some factos in the operation of some parts of some companys.thats why the threads here.
if it was like you seem to think it is the forum could just delete the thread.couldnt they?
FYI the GSR 'owner' goes to meets and is well known to many on the forum from these meets
so what is it you are accusing and who are you accusing?
members,the forum,companies,the site owner?
Last edited:
I am not in the employment of either company and get no benefit or financial gain from either of them them ..I will say tho I would not cover up lie or praise a company if the facts weren't true ..GSR have proven their product time and time again and don't need me to praise them I assure you as other do a far better job of it than me ..and as far as betting money well you got the wrong guy here I'm not a gambling man and dont go out for a pint as I dont drink either so you are confusing me with someone else I think..whether you wish to or not use any products from either company is your decision I or other forum members have no wish to coerce you into doing so ..you pay your money and the choice is yours ..I do however deplore the manor in which angel tuning has been harassing the owner of GSR in PM's to him on this forum.. would you like it if a rival company told you to Quote - keep on making your ****ty induction kits etc and referred to his friends as disciples ..I for one have had enough of angle tuning and their bad attitude on this forum and quite honestly think the owner did something about it
Last edited:
so how are the forum in anyway connected with either of the companys you mention? - They go out on a beer, not enough?
I for one have had enough of angle tuning and their bad attitude on this forum and quite honestly think the owner did something about it
Did what?
I'm saying members that come here often told us that Angel tuning is the stuff, now youre saying basically no one tested their engine work after, but now after ages and saying it sucks? What abbout all those memebers who said to other members Angel tuning rocks cause you told them so?
And I'm not sayin GSR sucks, I havent tried it, but no one outside GBR and this forum ever heard of it, their word document saved as html and uploaded to be their website says enough...
And why should I think it's the best, it looks just like KN with a hose that goes up and down and shake it all arround
I for one have had enough of angle tuning and their bad attitude on this forum and quite honestly think the owner did something about it
Did what?
I'm saying members that come here often told us that Angel tuning is the stuff, now youre saying basically no one tested their engine work after, but now after ages and saying it sucks? What abbout all those memebers who said to other members Angel tuning rocks cause you told them so?
And I'm not sayin GSR sucks, I havent tried it, but no one outside GBR and this forum ever heard of it, their word document saved as html and uploaded to be their website says enough...
And why should I think it's the best, it looks just like KN with a hose that goes up and down and shake it all arround
