Technical Abarth Seats in a Panda?

[Cook1e]

Apologies for the hiatus, I only just got round to finishing the job. I had a few issues, not least of which was that the centre bracket bar I bought from eBay was bent (from a car which had a heavy side impact, I guess). Big vice, blowtorch, jack and big hammer eventually took care of the problem.

Anyway, I effed about with the U-brackets, lower swivel brackets etc. for ages, including cutting out part of the plastic cover over them, when I suddenly saw the solution...

DISCLAIMER: I KNOW NOTHING AND NOBODY SHOULD EVER FOLLOW THIS COURSE OF ACTION OR YOU WILL DIE HORRIBLY!!!

Having removed the U-brackets and stared at the resulting gap whilst ineffectually waving the seat-backs up and down and muttering obscenities under my breath, I noticed that the front bolt-hole for securing the U-brackets was exactly aligned with the snecks on the seat-backs! I cut the heads off a couple of long (3-4") M10x1.25 bolts, ran locking nuts up the threads, screwed the headless bolts into the aforementioned front U-bracket bolt-hole and tightened the lock-nuts.

VOILA! It works and now I have split rear seats with headrests.

Thanks for all the advice, pointers and help. Much appreciated chaps.

 

[Cook1e]

Pictures have been requested -photos or it didn't happen, right?

Some general views, close-ups of the replacement bolts and one with the original bracket held up, for context.

The triangular cut-out and sawn-off and screwed back in on the LHS was me pissing about trying to adapt the original U-bracket - aborted. The RHS shows that no butchery of the plastic trim is actually required.

No doubt my work can be criticised as not as strong as the original. Anyone prone to this criticism, please see the disclaimer in the previous post.

 

[Cook1e]

Addendum: I just sat in both the back seats (one at a time - I'm fat, but not that fat!), bounced up and down and rocked back and forth.

I can confirm that the new fixings are perfectly strong enough. Now what about the rear suspension...

 

[DaveMcT]

The split fold rear seats have no connection between the seat tops. The pins at each side are all they have to retain them upright. I think your uber bolts are more than adequate.

Maybe you can cover your plastic butchery with an aluminium panel. Neatly pop riveted or stuck with Tiger Seal.

 

[DaveMcT]

Check out my thread from some years ago about fitting the 500 rear axle. I did it because the 169 axles were expensive or rusty. Today you an get them for around £125. I also reasoned the integral ARB would improve the back-end handling.

HOWEVER, the car rides and handles so much better with 500 axle, 500 springs and spring buffer rubbers at top and bottom (get used springs complete with rubbers). It wont work with 169 springs - much too hard. There is ample space for 145 80 R13 tyres. There's probably enough space for 14 x 175 tyres. There is absolutely not enough space for 195 tyres as used on 100HP.

I get criticised because the wider track is supposed to damage the car's handling. In reality, the car has been better in all weathers including the heavy snow we had a few years ago. My MoT tester thinks it's a great idea - and he's a seriously fussy so-n-so.

 

[Cook1e]

Check out my thread from some years ago about fitting the 500 rear axle. I did it because the 169 axles were expensive or rusty. Today you an get them for around £125. I also reasoned the integral ARB would improve the back-end handling.

HOWEVER, the car rides and handles so much better with 500 axle, 500 springs and spring buffer rubbers at top and bottom (get used springs complete with rubbers). It wont work with 169 springs - much too hard. There is ample space for 145 80 R13 tyres. There's probably enough space for 14 x 175 tyres. There is absolutely not enough space for 195 tyres as used on 100HP.

I get criticised because the wider track is supposed to damage the car's handling. In reality, the car has been better in all weathers including the heavy snow we had a few years ago. My MoT tester thinks it's a great idea - and he's a seriously fussy so-n-so.

Thanks Dave, I should have made clear that my suspension comment was intended in jest, following my bouncing on the back seat. However, your advice may well come in handy in the future - I applied Waxoyl to the axle a few years ago, but it'll still rot I suppose

 

[Cook1e]

The split fold rear seats have no connection between the seat tops. The pins at each side are all they have to retain them upright. I think your uber bolts are more than adequate.

Maybe you can cover your plastic butchery with an aluminium panel. Neatly pop riveted or stuck with Tiger Seal.

It's not visible with the seats up and I'm not really 'car-proud' - it's a cheap old banger that I was surprised to find I like very much. I like to keep it in good mechanical condition and I hope it'll last for a good few years yet. Thanks for the tip though.

 

[DaveMcT]

I'm not offering "advice" on the rear axle. Just my observations and experience. It turns a harsh riding car into something much nicer to use. My old axle was badly rusted so I had to get it sorted. At the time my approach was the least costly. That's now all changed with IM Axles selling pattern 169 and 500/312/Ka axles.

 

[koalar]

It's not visible with the seats up and I'm not really 'car-proud' - it's a cheap old banger that I was surprised to find I like very much. I like to keep it in good mechanical condition and I hope it'll last for a good few years yet. Thanks for the tip though.

The force involved are huge

While stationary I got hit from behind

The force was enough to snap a Seat Ibiza drivers seat in half making a sun lounger

 

[Cook1e]

The force involved are huge

While stationary I got hit from behind

The force was enough to snap a Seat Ibiza drivers seat in half making a sun lounger

I've had rear-seat passengers maybe twice in 4+ years owning my Panda. I can only hope that if I have a similar accident to yours, there's a nice, soft fatty sitting behind me

 

[The Panda Nut]

Thanks, I'll search on here for details. I'm just looking for something more comfortable on a long drive

Don't look at 500 seats unless Abarth. The standard ones are no better than Panda seats on a long drive. I have seen some nice well adjustable high backed Seats from a Vauxhall Corsa in a Panda100 fitted by a member on here. He said they were very good. Some welding was required to mate the two bits together,(seat base and Panda seat runner, but nothing drastric. I bought his Panda 100 Seats. The Seats on the 100HP are fab but there are few decent ones now left. If you could find some they would slot straight in and even if you had to have a trimmer do a few refurbishments. Thats probably the best way to go. Panda 100 seats can be broken down easily allowing driver and passenger seat bases to be swapped to cope with side bolster wear, and they look right too.

 

[Cook1e]

Don't look at 500 seats unless Abarth. The standard ones are no better than Panda seats on a long drive. I have seen some nice well adjustable high backed Seats from a Vauxhall Corsa in a Panda100 fitted by a member on here. He said they were very good. Some welding was required to mate the two bits together,(seat base and Panda seat runner, but nothing drastric. I bought his Panda 100 Seats. The Seats on the 100HP are fab but there are few decent ones now left. If you could find some they would slot straight in and even if you had to have a trimmer do a few refurbishments. Thats probably the best way to go. Panda 100 seats can be broken down easily allowing driver and passenger seat bases to be swapped to cope with side bolster wear, and they look right too.

Cheers PN, it was the Abarth ones I got and fitted. The driver's seat is MUCH more comfortable. Thanks for the tips

 

[The Panda Nut]

I will say that checking, and cleaning does the trick but why the hell should you need to! My 2019 car is driven briskly and I do use the brakes deliberately firmly reasonably often to hopefully keep them mobile, but at 12000 miles the discs were starting to go. Its kept clean and its garaged. If anyone has any insider knowledge I would be delighted to learn!.

P.S. Its not a fault, they are all like that Sir!

 

[koalar]

I will say that checking, and cleaning does the trick but why the hell should you need to! My 2019 car is driven briskly and I do use the brakes deliberately firmly reasonably often to hopefully keep them mobile, but at 12000 miles the discs were starting to go. Its kept clean and its garaged. If anyone has any insider knowledge I would be delighted to learn!.

P.S. Its not a fault, they are all like that Sir!

And every manufacture if driven hard

The discs in the photo I posted earlier are 7 years old. I don’t know how many miles but they do a 200 miles round trip a couple of times a week for the last couple of years. But they do drive quite carefully

Where as in this photo they haven’t been looked after for around 80K on a VW photo from the internet

Wonder if vented wear better

 

[jrkitching]

Wonder if vented wear better

I doubt it.

The main reason why discs don't last like they used to in days gone by is that modern pads have a high iron fibre content and are much more abrasive than the old asbestos based type.

On the 500/Panda, I can easily get 50k out of a set of pads, but by then the discs will be more than half worn, so need replacing if they're not to go out of limits before the next pad change. Fortunately they're cheap as chips.

 

[koalar]

I get criticised because the wider track is supposed to damage the car's handling. In reality, the car has been better in all weathers including the heavy snow we had a few years ago. My MoT tester thinks it's a great idea - and he's a seriously fussy so-n-so.

Not sure where MOT comes into the debate. The handling of the car isn’t in the MOT otherwise no reliant robin would ever pass

I don’t see how you can tell how will it handles until you are close to or passed the point of adhesion I never do that on a public road.
Nobody would add 25mm wheel spacers just to the rears and be competitive in a one one make, fwd, hatch series. Everyone either runs standard, increase all, increase front or increases front by more than the rear, are they all wrong.

Williams increased the front on the Cleo 16v to dial out some of the factory safety built in understeer

I offered to get the use of an airfield and some cones to prove that the understeer is increased

Someone asked a wheelspacer manufacture about adding 20 mm to just the rear. Here is their unaltered response

“By adding spacers to the rear only you will experience an increase in understeer. Typically when adding spacers the front and rear tracks are widened equally, or close to it. The majority of GT customers who purchase our spacers go with 22 (F) / 25 (R). There are certainly other modifications that can be made to correct understeer such as sway bars, etc, depending on how much you wanted to invest on dialing it in.

We have sizes from 15mm up to 25mm in stock and ready for shipment. If you want we can email you photos of the GT with various sizes, IMO the 22/25 combo looks the best on GT's that have their stock suspension. All of our spacers are hub centric / wheel centric, fitment is precise, 100% made in the USA from billet and include all the necessary bolts. If that's not enough, we also provide a lifetime warranty and great pricing!

Let us know if we can help or offer assistance.”

Yes I know the rears are increased by 3mm but it’s nowhere near 25mm and that’s for looks at the expense of handling

I don’t care what people do to their own car. But to push it as being better and safer than what Fiat and the millions spent on the design could come up with.

When Fiat increased the rear they also increased the front track are they wrong

We seem to keep going round in circles. It’s fine to have a difference of opinion. If I had to fit the wrong part that affects safety I would inform my insurance company and I wouldn’t post it on a public form or advise others to do the same mod.

 

[The Panda Nut]

I doubt it.

The main reason why discs don't last like they used to in days gone by is that modern pads have a high iron fibre content and are much more abrasive than the old asbestos based type.

On the 500/Panda, I can easily get 50k out of a set of pads, but by then the discs will be more than half worn, so need replacing if they're not to go out of limits before the next pad change. Fortunately they're cheap as chips.

I presume that the rust is then started by iron dust from the pads and that this , when wet forms a paste that migrates to the outer edge and combined with disc rusting inwards caused the lip of rust that messes the pads. Daffos o/s disc was almost cut in half by something in the pad. I didnt fit these and imagine that proper quality parts wouldnt do this. I really dont mind replacing the discs with the pads and have actually done this for at least the last 30 years an all my cars. What is annoying is having a new car that self dectructs its virtually unused discs. In 1300 miles its had three sericves and numberous interventions by me in addition so I think its very unacceptable. My Bravo could wave its not guilty card here and the fronts lasted for around 45000 miles if I remmeber right and the rears about 80000. There must therefore I feel also de some design shortcomings. All 3 Pandas do the same thing and all are differently used and cover very different driving conditions and distances. The three of us also drive very differently. Added to this all 3 cars have differnent brakes but on a common theme.

I had a leaking caravan bought in 1989. Reason for the leaks, COSHH. All the sealnts were changed for unsuitable sovent free ones that failed after 18 months. A few years later the leaking vans were no more as effective products were introduced to replace them. I think we are still struggling without asbestos unless you go carbon ceramic, but this is not cost effective for a Noop. I suppose we just have to strip and clean the brakes much more often.

Im going to try doing this 3 monthly . Will try just holding the disc with emery paper and spinning them to really clean the edges and following with fcold galv spray we shall see if this has any effect.

 

[ryanthespider]

Great work regarding the seat @Cook1e , what length of bolt did you use and how come it had such a long length within thread?

Any issues further down the line?

Do you have Part number for that centre bracket?

 

[Wazzzer]

If you can wait until I get home later I'll send you the ebay links for the bolts/nuts I bought to do the same as the above pics and also see if I can get the part number for the isofix rear centre bracket. Mine was actually a Mk2 Ka part which was a lot cheaper than the identical Mk3 Panda bracket (they share the same chassis)

 

[Cook1e]

Great work regarding the seat @Cook1e , what length of bolt did you use and how come it had such a long length within thread?

Any issues further down the line?

Do you have Part number for that centre bracket?

Hi Ryan,
Part numbers here:

70613/01 - REAR SEAT

FIAT NUOVA PANDA (2003-2009)

eper.fiatforum.com

The bolts were in my box of bolts - I think they were probably cylinder head bolts in a past life, but eBay should have something - see screenshot.

No issues at all, job's a good'un!