General 500X 2018 Revamp

[Ralf S.]

This isn't to do with Euro 6... it's "the next EU thing"; which is a switch to measuring how much emissions are produced by a car-maker based on the size of the engines it makes and how many units it sells.

It's a complicated formula but basically Fiat (making predominantly smaller engines) has a very tight target to meet (91.1 g/km) - the tightest target of any manufacturer, somehow - which compares to 120 g/km its range produced in 2016.

Elsewhere, VW has to hit 96g/km.. while Merc' and BMW have a relatively comfortable 100 g/km.... Who said "EU rules always/again favour the Germans"? #cheatingpays

It's also worse than that (for everyone). Before the VW dieselgate the "test" for consumption was called New European Driving Cycle (NEDC). The new test is called Worldwide Harmonised Light Vehicle Test Procedure (WLTP) and it's a bit tougher (probably the VW sooftware gets disconnected.. ) For comparison, a VW Up! GTI was tested under both tests and it performed 16% worse under WLTP.

The biggest drain against the target is big engines and SuV's.... so in this context, you can maybe see the impact on 500X which used to combine the largest engines Fiat makes into the least fuel efficient body style.

I can't see how the new rules is not another German con-job somehow... since it looks like if you happen to make big, dirty, polluting engines with cheat software you get a higher CO2 target.. and if you are a fairly innocuous manufacturer in "Southern Europe" you get shafted... Sounds like normal EU (why not let's get the f*** out of it) ... but what do I know?

More from Autocar:

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/industry/analysis-how-will-car-makers-meet-new-co2-laws




Ralf S.

 

[cowabunga]

I've read this thread over the last few weeks as it's developed and TBH I am a bit mystified by the changes they have made. It's like Fiat can go one way or another and they always seem to choose the worst option.

I see a lot of discussion about CO2 targets, had some thoughts on my mind but have checked them this morning. These are just a few of the CO2 emissions of the engines, ranked in CO2 ascendancy.

Existing 1.6 mjd manual 109g
Existing 2.0 MJD manual 4WD 130g
New 1.0 manual 139g
Existing 1.4 Multiair manual 139g
Existing 2.0 MJD auto 4WD 144g
New 1.3 auto 146g
Existing/ New 1.6 E-torq 147g/ 139 (with s/s)

So I don't accept the CO2 argument. In general the new engines seem more polluting in terms of CO2 than those that went before even comparing petrol with petrol of similar performance. Then when you consider the diesels their CO2 emissions are clearly less per equivalent dollop of performance, and that's excluding the fact the top models have the additional weight of a 4WD system, and in many cases an auto box.

So it must be for some anti-diesel reason. Maybe canning the diesel in the regular 500 worked and they think that having a full petrol lineup will appeal more to younger people, it's strange.

And I get the feeling they are giving less and charging about the same as before.

Imo the best "new" fiat 500x for a private buyer is something like an 18 plate diesel with sub 100 miles on the clock. Browsing around the lower models start from £12k, and even a top spec 2.0 cross plus 4WD auto yellow or white) is advertised at £15,695, which give or take is around a 10k saving. Whatver the future of diesel is and the impact on resale values at least there is a gigantic saving up front and a buyer would benefit from cheaper running costs vs petrol.

Then you have to factor in a proportion of buyers will still want diesel 500x's and with no new ones available that will probably push up diesel 500x resale values.

I just don't get it, I think in time at the very least they must reinstate the 1.6 MJD.

 

[Nello]

Doesn't look a bad day at the Office Simon. I'm not actually a fan of Keyless entry. I'm so OCD I always want to check the door is locked anyway - which in turn reopens them again if you don't do it correctly! I do like that Blue.... Our 500X will remain with us for a couple more years until Stelvio depreciation has hit enough

 

[chris3234]

Most car's will appear to produce more Co2 now as they new figures are based on the supposed more real world testing procedures

 

[cowabunga]

Most car's will appear to produce more Co2 now as they new figures are based on the supposed more real world testing procedures

Just had a read around and it's questionable what difference this makes to the actual CO2 produced as can be seen in this article.

https://www.fleeteurope.com/en/manu...acelifted-fiat-500x-gets-tco-friendly-engines

These have been NEDC correlated and seem to be 6 and 7 co2's than the figures I posted earlier, not much enough of a difference to change my point.

Reading around it seems the new test is to give potential buyers a more realistic view of real world MPG.

 

[TrevC]

I was in a Fiat showroom yesterday and had a quick look at a new one there. It was labelled a 120 Multiair Cross. Very dull interior compared to my 2015 Lounge, which has the contrasting light "leather" and brushed metal effect on the centre console and doors. Not sure if the dash was body coloured as it was grey, but so was the exterior.
One of the main attractions of the 500X for me was the interior. Don't know what you have to spend on the options list now to avoid the sea of grey that you get in most other cars.

 

[Nello]

The Cross Look cars all had Grey dash and seats whereas the City Look cars all had Body coloured dash panels and coloured seat sections. Agree it does look better and all cars should have had them. As per another thread there's a few Cross owners changing City coloured Dash panels over on to their cars.

 

[Ralf S.]

The dash is body-coloured on all models now .. but there is a gun-metal grey paint colour which is what you might have seen.

The interior of the lighter colours looks pretty nice, especially if you stick leather in it... but I agree, the old lighter interiors looked more airy to me (but then, I'm not a yoof any more.. )

There are also two matt finishes.. a dark denim colour and an olive green that looks a bit "army".. if you like that sort of thing. Generally the changes look good and contemporary I think but when it comes to the engines and gearbox options I have to agree with the lad cowabunga... Fiat always seems to choose some rather random and apparently counter-intuitive options.

I'm not sure either, why in this day of computerised/robotized production and logistics, it's not possible for Fiat UK to offer every model with the full range of engine/transmission options available (albeit converting some engines to RHD is probably a PITA).

But if you can put a 1.0 manual Firefly in a Cross, you can put it in an Urban isn't it? So why isn't the latter available? I'm not sure that Fiat is completely as "on it" as it could be at the moment.


Ralf S.

 

[cowabunga]

Just thought id look at what they get in other countries, chose a sample of 1....Germany.

Translating the page https://www.fiat.de/fiat-500x/cross-look

They get the 3 petrol engines we're getting with the 1.3 in auto format.

Plus they are retaining the 1.3MJD, 1.6 MJD, 1.6 MJD auto, all of which have lower CO2 emissions than all the petrols, including the 1.0l.

Emissions wise the diesels also comply with Euro 6D-temp, the latest emissions standard test.

You seem to be able to select any rims too, on the cross version you can choose 16's, 17's and 18's.

And on cross and city cross options there is the choice of 4WD.

Makes you wonder how Fiat manage to balls things up so much in the UK.

 

[s130]

Makes you wonder how Fiat manage to balls things up so much in the UK.

Phone them up and ask

 

[Ralf S.]

Aye!

I can imagine that if there is a 3.0ltr v6 or whatever available in Euro-land then it *might* not be possible to convert it RHD for the UK market... but if an engine exists and is being fitted to production LHD cars and the same engine used to be available in RHD but has just been dropped, then there's no excuse.

Even worse, if an engine is fitted to one style of trim (e.g. Cross), then there is no way at all that it can't be fitted to another (e.g. Urban) since everythig bar the bumpers is more or less identical. It's frankly dire.

Tipo (my favourite rant) is a case in point. They make RHD saloons for Eireland... so why not for the UK? They're RHD and fitted with 95bhp motors... but the Irish do get the 120bhp but just in the hatch. Why won't a 120bhp fit in a saloon and why don't the Brits get offered it? How is that a strain on the production line exactly?

I think someone at Fiat thinks it's 1980 or something and that there's extra expense in offering every single colour scheme, body style and engine option. There isn't... (even the Configurator would be simpler.. )

I really dunno why Fiat is so tight with its options and variants, when the 500 proved that the more options you offer, the more you sell.


Ralf S.

 

[cowabunga]

It's like their dumbing down the potential of the 500x imo.

The Panda is the bread and butter small car with low customisation options, the 500 is the quality smaller car with loads of customisation options.

With the 500x it's like their trying to make it "more standard" akin to the Panda rather than the 500x being the higher quality top of the range customisable model it should be.

Then i see things like this: https://www.motor1.com/news/265170/fiat-500x-abarth-ruled-out/

It's like Fiat have lost faith in the 500x a bit, as if they want to just see out the lifecycle with minimal cosmetic upgrades before a new model arrives in the future.

 

[s130]

Who would buy a Fiat 500X Abarth? Possibly very few.

I look at the current 500 Abarths and almost wet myself laughing when we towards the top end. Near on £27,000!.

Given the 500 to 500X price differences then are we talking £30,000+.

Also the 500 Abarth is if you like building on / rebuilding on the classic old 500 Abarths. Not sure the 500X Crossover cuts the same blood stream to be given the Abarth treament.

Fiat made a huge error when they terminated Abarth with the Strada/Ritmo. Not the termination as such but the marketing hype of putting the Abarth Badge with body kit on a bog standard Cinquecento. Yes Abarth shut shop but actually moved to Civasso to join up with the Lancia Delta rally projects and the Alfa Romeo Touring Car performance divsisions. So Abarth lived on in terms of technical expertise etc. but not as a brand.

If you exclude the Simca, Porshe, and other less know well Abarth models then for Fiat the ones with world wide competition success and reknown come down to the 500 Abarth, 124 Abarth and 131 Abarth. The Ritmo Abarth would have been the next one but 4WD was taking over and dominating rallying and the Lancia Integrale was the obvious choice.

So from a personal point of view I'm quite pleased there is not a 500X Abarth. More upsetting is that for me the modern 124 Abarth does not really cut the Abarth mustard. It is a big car, very heavy due to modern safety crash test requirments etc. so whilst sporty and pretty looking does not really have "that sting in the tail" we expect from the Abarth touch/engineering. Almost but not quite a repeat of the Cinquecento bade marketting folley.

For me if I want a really excellent sporting performance car then a 500 Abarth would certainly be looked at but I'm sure there are other makes and models that could take on modern 500 Abarth and possibly at a better price. BUT they wont be a Fiat or an Abarth worth of the badge.

All this aside the 500X 140BHP with manaul box is a great fun car to drive, can be pushed hard, handling good and for most will be ideal, or should I know say was ideal.

 

[cowabunga]

The abarth ritmo takes me back. Years ago (25+) I was a passenger in one by accident, I'll tell the story one day.

A neighbour of mine years ago had an integrale (all LHD i think!), make such a racket, even at tickover. Great car though, just one of the alltime classics.

The abarth has been diluted, I agree it's not suitable for a 124 in its current format, and feels kinda like a warm hatch, not the full fat barnstormer it could have been.

That said I think if they shoehorned the 4C engine into the 124 and the 500x I think they'd both be worthy of the name.

I wonder if that was the issue, they didnt want to go as far as fitting the 4C engine and wondered if anybody would really be willing to pony up for a sub 200bhp abarth (probably the 1.4 multiair with extra boost) when there (was) already the 4WD 170bhp until these new ones came out.

 

[simon_16vpunto]

I’d buy an abarth 500x lol.
The 500 is too wee for me with a 2 year old child
My diesel 500x already has big Alfa wheels, lowered 40mm and big brakes ?

 

[Ralf S.]

A 500X Abarth with a different (4C) engine might be a "too big" engineering change to make it profitable (vs the potential sales) so I suspect it won't ever happen... which is a pity.

On the other hand, Fiat *could* bung 500X and Tipo's to Abarth and tell them they can build what they like as long as they only use existing FCA components, to keep the cost down/profit up. If some fellas on forum can stuff a Fiat Coupe engine into a Punto or a Panda 100 engine into a Cinq', a bunch of professional engineers would be able to come up with something a bit random too.

But... this is the same Fiat who can't put a 120bhp engine into a RHD Tipo saloon even though all the parts already exist and already fit... so I'm not sure there's enough spare Mojo in Turin at the moment.


Ralf S.

 

[Nello]

Agreed the Abarth name was ruined somewhat by becoming just a badge during the 90's but I was glad to see it return as a brand even if the performance is not quite what Carlo would have expected. I think the current issue is that Mike Manley has only just taken over so it will be some time before we see some real brand developments.
But I also agree to brand a 500X an Abarth would really be just like adding a badge for the sake of it - it'll never be a proper sporting Fiat. Its like JLR chopping the roof off an Evoque Its not supposed to be that type of car.

 

[cowabunga]

They had the 4c engine in the 500x according to that link above so not sure why they got cold feet.

Look what Seat have done with the Ateca and the Cupra branding. Surely if Seat think there's a market for a 300bhp 4WD non prestige brand crossover then I'm not sure why Fiat/ Abarth see things differently.

Maybe the issue is branding or the potential to take sales off other FCA products. Would it harm say Stelvio sales if a smaller car £10k+ cheaper was available.

 

[TrevC]

Road test here:
https://www.honestjohn.co.uk/road-tests/fiat/fiat-500x-cross-10-road-test/

 

[Nello]

Looks good - So has Fiat listened to its customers? That car in the Honest John article looks like a Cross look but now with brighter (City-like) coloured dash. The new lights look good and I like that quilting on the seats.