Technical 2017 Ducato 2.3l, 180. Strange clatter noise at idle and up to 2000rpm

[Reavergy]

I was just doing some fluids changes on the Ducato today, and I noticed a strange noise. A strange clatter when accelerating from idle (gear in neutral).
It stops when revs get to around 2000rpm and it does it again when revs come down to idle after releasing the accelerator.
Not very noticeable at idle, it increases with revs up to 2000rpm.
I attach a video with the noise.
It is not any of the belts. It seems to come from the rear of the engine, driver side.
It can be heard best from inside the wheel arch.
It cannot really be heard much from inside when driving.

 

[bugsymike]

I was just doing some fluids changes on the Ducato today, and I noticed a strange noise. A strange clatter when accelerating from idle (gear in neutral).
It stops when revs get to around 2000rpm and it does it again when revs come down to idle after releasing the accelerator.
Not very noticeable at idle, it increases with revs up to 2000rpm.
I attach a video with the noise.
It is not any of the belts. It seems to come from the rear of the engine, driver side.
It can be heard best from inside the wheel arch.
It cannot really be heard much from inside when driving.

Can't load the video.
Can you use a "listening stick" long screwdriver or stethoscope to locate noise better.
Less familiar with your engine, does it have a timing chain or auxilary chain as I believe some of the Iveco versions of those engine may have?
I had a strange rattle similar to your description on a 2.0 litre 16 valve Fiat Scudo (they have the Peugeot engine) In the end I located the noise to the end of the exhaust cam which drives the diesel injector pump had nearly broken right off.

 

[Reavergy]

Can't load the video.
Can you use a "listening stick" long screwdriver or stethoscope to locate noise better.
Less familiar with your engine, does it have a timing chain or auxilary chain as I believe some of the Iveco versions of those engine may have?
I had a strange rattle similar to your description on a 2.0 litre 16 valve Fiat Scudo (they have the Peugeot engine) In the end I located the noise to the end of the exhaust cam which drives the diesel injector pump had nearly broken right off.

Thanks Bugsymike.
The uploaded video works at my end.
Yes I tried with a long screwdriver and with a hose in my ear, but wasn't able to pinpoint the noise.
My engine has a timing belt and the noise doesn't seem to come from there.
I removed the other 2 belts driving air con, alternator and power steering pump, but the noise was still there.
My diesel pump is driven by the timing belt, together with the water pump. I opened up the plastic cover without removing it completely, but the noise didn't come from in there.

 

[bugsymike]

Thanks Bugsymike.
The uploaded video works at my end.
Yes I tried with a long screwdriver and with a hose in my ear, but wasn't able to pinpoint the noise.
My engine has a timing belt and the noise doesn't seem to come from there.
I removed the other 2 belts driving air con, alternator and power steering pump, but the noise was still there.
My diesel pump is driven by the timing belt, together with the water pump. I opened up the plastic cover without removing it completely, but the noise didn't come from in there.

If it is twin cam what drives the second cam is it gears or a chain?
Is it worse when cold like piston type rattle?
Does noise change when warming up like an EGR valve opening or rattling ?

 

[AnthonyH]

I've heard that clack clack noise before, problem being i can't remember what it is...

 

[Reavergy]

It doesn't do when the engine is cold. It starts doing it when the water temperature indicator starts rising, so I suppose when the thermostat opens.

 

[Reavergy]

If it is twin cam what drives the second cam is it gears or a chain?
Is it worse when cold like piston type rattle?
Does noise change when warming up like an EGR valve opening or rattling ?

It has twin cam. One cam driven by the timing belt on one side. The other cam is driven by a chain on rhe other side of the head, driven by the first cam.
Not a piston rattle. The engine works perfectly apart the noise.
The noise doesn't seem to change much, apart not being there on cold engine. When the engine is warm like in the video the noise is minimal at idle and seems more noisy up to 2000rpm. Then you can't hear it anymore. May be because of the rest of the noise from the engine.

 

[Reavergy]

I've heard that clack clack noise before, problem being i can't remember what it is...

It doesn't do when the engine is cold. It starts doing it when the water temperature indicator starts rising, so I suppose when the thermostat opens.

 

[bugsymike]

It doesn't do when the engine is cold. It starts doing it when the water temperature indicator starts rising, so I suppose when the thermostat opens.

You may find it correlates with when the EGR or something starts to function, is it possible to safely get your hand on the control side of things like that when the rattle happens?
So you don't feel it is the chain driving the second cam or chain tensioner .
If you can hear the sound on this video, it is what my 2.0 Fiat Scudo sounded like with the cam drive to the injector pump breaking up.

 

[Reavergy]

You may find it correlates with when the EGR or something starts to function, is it possible to safely get your hand on the control side of things like that when the rattle happens?
So you don't feel it is the chain driving the second cam or chain tensioner .

The noise seems to be coming from the lower right hand side part of the engine. Around the alternator area. The second cam chain is at the top left of the engine. No noise from there.

 

[Reavergy]

You may find it correlates with when the EGR or something starts to function, is it possible to safely get your hand on the control side of things like that when the rattle happens?
So you don't feel it is the chain driving the second cam or chain tensioner .
If you can hear the sound on this video, it is what my 2.0 Fiat Scudo sounded like with the cam drive to the injector pump breaking up.

You may find it correlates with when the EGR or something starts to function, is it possible to safely get your hand on the control side of things like that when the rattle happens?
So you don't feel it is the chain driving the second cam or chain tensioner .
If you can hear the sound on this video, it is what my 2.0 Fiat Scudo sounded like with the cam drive to the injector pump breaking up.

The noise in your video is more like a rattle, consistent with chain noise.
I think the noise in mine sounds more like a flapping or tapping. And the fact it doesn't do it when cold probably excludes the little cam chain

 

[Reavergy]

I had another good look this morning to identify where the noise is coming from. Itook another couple of videos.
I removed both a/c belt and accessory (alternator and power) belts again.
The noise really seems to be coming from behind/above the alternator.
I could not see anything rattling/vibrating from under or above the engine.

 

[Hank25]

I had another good look this morning to identify where the noise is coming from. Itook another couple of videos.
I removed both a/c belt and accessory (alternator and power) belts again.
The noise really seems to be coming from behind/above the alternator.
I could not see anything rattling/vibrating from under or above the engine.

Sounds like it maybe cambelt tensioner,idler or water pump bearing on way out.

 

[Reavergy]

Sounds like it maybe cambelt tensioner,idler or water pump bearing on way out.

Thanks, I thought about that. I completely unbolted the timing belt plastic cover without removing the crankshaft pulley. From the top then you can open up the cover enough to see all the camshaft pulley and the belt on it. With the engine on I listened there from the top and the noise didn't seem to come from in there. I thought if the noise generated from the timing belt enclosure, it would be very clear from the top there with the plastic cover opened.
Good point though. Did you have a cambelt tensioner, idler or water pump with a similar noise? I may consider removing all the plastic cover to check better all the parts in there. Problem is they made it so tight that it is difficult to remove the crankshaft pulley without lowering the engine!

 

[Reavergy]

Has anyone ever heard what a bad timing belt tensioner sounds like on the Ducato?

 

[bugsymike]

Thanks, I thought about that. I completely unbolted the timing belt plastic cover without removing the crankshaft pulley. From the top then you can open up the cover enough to see all the camshaft pulley and the belt on it. With the engine on I listened there from the top and the noise didn't seem to come from in there. I thought if the noise generated from the timing belt enclosure, it would be very clear from the top there with the plastic cover opened.
Good point though. Did you have a cambelt tensioner, idler or water pump with a similar noise? I may consider removing all the plastic cover to check better all the parts in there. Problem is they made it so tight that it is difficult to remove the crankshaft pulley without lowering the engine!

If you have narrowed it down to that general area, it seems you have little choice, even though it is a sod to get too
This is from the 2012 Timing Belt manual so may be a bit out of date for your model.

 

[Reavergy]

Well I wasn't going to do the belt just yet because it still looks good, but I cannot look at the tensioner without opening it up and once it is open I may as well change belt, tensioner and idler. I already have the kit.
Someone mentioned that it sounds like an exhaust leak, which is what I thought from the start, but I just could not pinpoint it, and I spent some time under there listening to it!

 

[bugsymike]

Well I wasn't going to do the belt just yet because it still looks good, but I cannot look at the tensioner without opening it up and once it is open I may as well change belt, tensioner and idler. I already have the kit.
Someone mentioned that it sounds like an exhaust leak, which is what I thought from the start, but I just could not pinpoint it, and I spent some time under there listening to it!

I run Linux , so that may be why I can't see/hear the video, but if related to temp as well it may be something to do with EGR valve as that could leak and sound of exhaust possibly when exhaust gas is told to recycle by the ECU.
With engine off and a good inspection light it may be possible to follow exhaust route in that area and see if any sooty deposits around any joints maybe.

 

[Reavergy]

I found there was a recall on the egr cooler for 2016-17 vehicles. I posted separately to see if someone has a full vin list for the recall

 

[Reavergy]

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