Technical 2014 Panda 4x4 TA ABS

[SHall]

Hello All,

Hoping somebody can help me with this one please,
I have an intermittent issue with the rear nearside brake when accelerating from braking sometimes from full on stationary pull off sometimes just slow speeds, the ABS seems to be cutting in. At first I thought is was brake pad shatter so changed the pads, calliper, calliper carrier and disk, with no change so went on to change the wheel speed sensor and still no change. What’s left to change? Sometimes this fault now shows on the front brake also but only rarely and only on the nearside. I guessing it ABS electrical related but was wondering if the 4x4 works by applying the brake to feed power to the slipping wheel so was thinking about the speed sensor on the opposing wheel?
Its a 2014 Panda 4x4 Twinair,
Getting desperate now might have to employ a garage and the potencial cost is giving me panic attacks!

Thanks

 

[bugsymike]

Hello All,

Hoping somebody can help me with this one please,
I have an intermittent issue with the rear nearside brake when accelerating from braking sometimes from full on stationary pull off sometimes just slow speeds, the ABS seems to be cutting in. At first I thought is was brake pad shatter so changed the pads, calliper, calliper carrier and disk, with no change so went on to change the wheel speed sensor and still no change. What’s left to change? Sometimes this fault now shows on the front brake also but only rarely and only on the nearside. I guessing it ABS electrical related but was wondering if the 4x4 works by applying the brake to feed power to the slipping wheel so was thinking about the speed sensor on the opposing wheel?
Its a 2014 Panda 4x4 Twinair,
Getting desperate now might have to employ a garage and the potencial cost is giving me panic attacks!

Thanks

Are you getting any error messages?
Ideally you would have something like a full version of MES diagnostics that many are familiar with on Forum and can advise you.
I don't use MES, but many similar good diagnostics can give live data readings from the ABS sensors as you drive.
Systems are getting even more technical these days , I was reading a trade piece the other day and it was showing the benefits of a good oscilloscope type diagnostic such as Pico which can show up some faults that may not be apparent with normal diagnostics.
Obviously not the sort of expensive kit a private owner would contemplate, but does give an idea why the cost of good diagnosis can be expensive.
Glad I am retired .

 

[SHall]

Are you getting any error messages?
Ideally you would have something like a full version of MES diagnostics that many are familiar with on Forum and can advise you.
I don't use MES, but many similar good diagnostics can give live data readings from the ABS sensors as you drive.
Systems are getting even more technical these days , I was reading a trade piece the other day and it was showing the benefits of a good oscilloscope type diagnostic such as Pico which can show up some faults that may not be apparent with normal diagnostics.
Obviously not the sort of expensive kit a private owner would contemplate, but does give an idea why the cost of good diagnosis can be expensive.
Glad I am retired .

Hi Bugsymike,
No lights showing on dash when it happens, only checked for error codes with a basic OBD reader so far, nothing showing on this. I was guessing I'm going to have to find a garage to do some investigation with the Fiat software package or something similar but wanted to try all possible avenues first.
Thanks though, enjoy your retirement,
Mine is looking further away now as spending my pension fund on fixing this bloody issue !

 

[bugsymike]

Hi Bugsymike,
No lights showing on dash when it happens, only checked for error codes with a basic OBD reader so far, nothing showing on this. I was guessing I'm going to have to find a garage to do some investigation with the Fiat software package or something similar but wanted to try all possible avenues first.
Thanks though, enjoy your retirement,
Mine is looking further away now as spending my pension fund on fixing this bloody issue !

Two ex wives messed my retirement prospects, so live in poverty
It may be worth looking into the MES MultiEcu Scan to install on a lap top or phone etc.
Not terribly expensive and lots of information available here on Forum from users. More detail on cost and what it will do on Gendan website.

 

[Panda IIs]

Hello All,

Hoping somebody can help me with this one please,
I have an intermittent issue with the rear nearside brake when accelerating from braking sometimes from full on stationary pull off sometimes just slow speeds, the ABS seems to be cutting in. At first I thought is was brake pad shatter so changed the pads, calliper, calliper carrier and disk, with no change so went on to change the wheel speed sensor and still no change. What’s left to change? Sometimes this fault now shows on the front brake also but only rarely and only on the nearside. I guessing it ABS electrical related but was wondering if the 4x4 works by applying the brake to feed power to the slipping wheel so was thinking about the speed sensor on the opposing wheel?
Its a 2014 Panda 4x4 Twinair,
Getting desperate now might have to employ a garage and the potencial cost is giving me panic attacks!

Thanks

Did I understand correctly; you hear the ABS when accelerating away from a standstill?

Two things come to mind, are you sure its not the 4x4 kicking in due to loss of traction at the front end, or is it the traction control kicking in due to wheel slip?? Both of which might be considered normal behaviour.

 

[Herts Hillhopper]

Might not be the ABS at all.

@SHall Have you inadvertently manually turned on the 4x4 setting…? This mustn’t be done on tarmac as, owing to there not being a central differential, you will end up ‘winding up’ the transmission, especially if not pointing in a straight line. The only way it can release this is by one or both rear wheels (more accurately their tyres) ‘jumping’ to release the build up of torque. That release will come in the form of wheel ‘judder’

The ‘ELD’ button (which does a lot more than just make the ‘diff lock’ effect be available) must not be turned on on tarmac, or any other surface with good grip, as this will lead to damage to the 4x4 system and the tyres.

The car will automatically engage 4 wheel drive (even with this switch turned off) if it feels it needs to, both on and off road. Rarely, if ever, will you need to select it manually.

In the Cross version, the same applies if the rotary dial is set to the ‘off road’ setting on tarmac.

 

[bugsymike]

Might not be the ABS at all.

Have you inadvertently manually turned on the 4x4 setting…? This mustn’t be done on tarmac as, owing to there not being a central differential, you will end up ‘winding up’ the transmission, especially if not pointing in a straight line. The only way it can release this is by the wheel (more accurately the tyres) ‘jumping’ to release the build up of torque. That release will come in the form of wheel ‘judder’

The ‘ELD’ button (which does a lot more than just make the ‘diff lock’ effect be available) must not be turned on in tarmac, or any other surface with good grip, as this will lead to damage to the 4x4 system and the tyres. The car will automatically engage 4 wheel drive (even with this switch turned off) if it feels it needs to.

In the Cross version, the same applies if the rotary dial is set to the ‘off road’ setting on tarmac.

I agree , certainly worth checking, I have seen similar effects on other makes of vehicles.

 

[porta]

As previously stated by some, and experienced by me recently:
Setting off on t junction on a steep hill…it’s just after a blind bend, so you have to put your foot down… car launches forwards and, as you describe, you get the judder/knock, it is indeed the 4x4 system.
Easy way to eliminate your ABS from fault is find a greasy car park, speed up n slam brakes on, if it’s working you won’t get an error message on dash.

 

[The Panda Nut]

ASR operating? But you should get a flashing light if it is. I think HH has this one. May be it is some how switching 4X4 on by its self? There has been another post re similar symptoms which was causedt by the tyres - probably from running with 4x4 on by a previous owner.

HH states dont run with the 4x4 switched on, on dry road"s. Hes s 100% correct and its also as stated in the handbook. Its also totally unnecessary as the automatic engagement of 4x4 in bad conditions is so smooth and so quick its not required. The off road or ELD positions on the system are for getting out of trouble or REALLY serious weather or off roading where you want the 50/50 drive in mud or snow or loose surfaces. In normal driving, even patchy ice, leaves, or pulling onto a muddy verge, or hard acceleration out of a junction the system does everything that is required to keep its drive going and prevent wheel slip. Driving both 2wd and the 4x4 regularly shows just how good it is. Pulling onto a busy main road on wet / icy conditions is so easy compared with 2wd, even Ruby with the 185 tyres is prone to spinning the inside wheel without much provocation.

Bear in mind the juddery brake issues of old which were addressed (seemingly successfully) by the dampening bolts fitted to later cars might also be an issue. I woudl also suggets have the brake pads out and check the piston is not a bit sticky. It seems to pay to carry a couple of mother in Laws, or some conrete block about every once ion a while. I have noticed the brake discs go dull when lightly laden but really shine up when weight has been carried for a few 100 miles. Try applying the hand brake and reversing . You should feel both sides of the car raise evenly if the brakes are doing their bit. Imbalance suggests a good clean and free up may be needed. Panda brakes, even the 319 need a little extra TLC to keep them sharp.

Dealers won't help do this, clearly they charge so much for the other work like topping up the screen washers (which in my case are never in need at service, to stop this nonsense, that they dont need the actual work you ask for!

 

[porta]

ASR operating? But you should get a flashing light if it is. I think HH has this one. May be it is some how switching 4X4 on by its self? There has been another post re similar symptoms which was causedt by the tyres - probably from running with 4x4 on by a previous owner.

HH states dont run with the 4x4 switched on, on dry road"s. Hes s 100% correct and its also as stated in the handbook. Its also totally unnecessary as the automatic engagement of 4x4 in bad conditions is so smooth and so quick its not required. The off road or ELD positions on the system are for getting out of trouble or REALLY serious weather or off roading where you want the 50/50 drive in mud or snow or loose surfaces. In normal driving, even patchy ice, leaves, or pulling onto a muddy verge, or hard acceleration out of a junction the system does everything that is required to keep its drive going and prevent wheel slip. Driving both 2wd and the 4x4 regularly shows just how good it is. Pulling onto a busy main road on wet / icy conditions is so easy compared with 2wd, even Ruby with the 185 tyres is prone to spinning the inside wheel without much provocation.

Bear in mind the juddery brake issues of old which were addressed (seemingly successfully) by the dampening bolts fitted to later cars might also be an issue. I woudl also suggets have the brake pads out and check the piston is not a bit sticky. It seems to pay to carry a couple of mother in Laws, or some conrete block about every once ion a while. I have noticed the brake discs go dull when lightly laden but really shine up when weight has been carried for a few 100 miles. Try applying the hand brake and reversing . You should feel both sides of the car raise evenly if the brakes are doing their bit. Imbalance suggests a good clean and free up may be needed. Panda brakes, even the 319 need a little extra TLC to keep them sharp.

Dealers won't help do this, clearly they charge so much for the other work like topping up the screen washers (which in my case are never in need at service, to stop this nonsense, that they dont need the actual work you ask for!

The 4x4 can’t be switched off, but all the electrickery stuff, on the dial, can be put on for low speed…however, I don’t use any on the road, unless it’s thick of snow and I’m going real slow, otherwise it’s just normal operation of the 4x4 system…I shout-outs have made clear that this all comes into play as:
The t junction is at the top of a very steep hill
Theres a blind bend and hillock to the left
There’s a minor beck that’s supposed to run in the culvert under the road, but it’s always full of leaves this time of year, so there’s always a bit of damp or a raging torrent
So…to go right, you apply maximum speed with the wheel at a quarter turn
It’s not just the Panda that loads the 4x4 system, the wife’s renegade does and ‘we’ get all four wheels spinning with that (it really is a beast but is really good on and off the road), and my Cherokee, and my mates Ford ranger pickup, gets osr wheel tramp and the cart springs bouncing like a Tasmanian Devil…all in the same place