Technical 2005 ducato 2.8 jtd - no start

[jacinabox]

Well, it starts!
I decided that diagnostics was the way to go, not to do so just compounded my feeling that I was blundering around it the dark...quick chat with Gendan and my wallet was a few bob lighter.

Had a day or so to wait for the package to arrive - so why waste it? I wanted to be absolutely sure all the earth's were spot on. I had some decent chunky copper cable so I knocked up a "daisy chain" earth harness which went direct from batt' neg to drivers side chassis, engine inlet manifold, gearbox and passenger side chassis.

Hunted anything that looked like a management sensor and cleaned the connectors with decent contact cleaner, like wise with the ECU connections.
Pulled apart the engine bay fuse box (front of engine above gearbox) Every connection cleaned and each relay checked)

The TOAD system - thought I'd have a look to see how much work would be involved in removing it. Teased out the control unit and masses of associated wiring. A good optical bollocking of the cables and I found a chaffed wire, looks as though it had be worn through by the metal casing of the control unit - solder and heat shrink had that repaired. Was that the cause of my problem?!

Let's give it a go...at this time I had all the intercooler pipes off to get access to the injectors. All the openings had been blocked off with wads of paper towels out they all came, or so I thought!
Turned the key, immob' fob disarmed TOAD & box clicked and lights indicated it was disarmed. Key turned and engine started...really rough and sounded as if it was running on two cylinders. Me messing with injectors and air in pipes? Gave it some throttle nearly stalled, masses of smoke and then clouds of ash and even more smoke - then ran perfectly!
Sudden thought about the ash - the paper towel bungs. Yes, I left the wad in the inlet manifold! Been sucked in and burnt, just as well I didn't use rags.

Fairly sure that it was the TOAD's chaffed wire earthing on the metal casing of the control box. Could have been the addition of a chunky earthing harness. I don't know anything for sure other than the TOAD system is looking forward to a new home in the bin!

So, all's well again...sincere thanks to all who contributed with advice. It was head-scratching stuff at times but I enjoyed it and learnt a lot. First time play with a diesel that has a management system fitted...much prefer them without all the electronics though

take care all

 

[toyogran]

Good news you got it started and cracked the problem.
Always nice to get follow up reports when a problem's solved.
Sure the MES kit will come in handy if any other gremlins creep under the bonnet.

 

[Stratos41]

Dear
Sorry if I can not understand your problem but please, do the most basic to see if you have a starter problem or not. Get out the positive terminal of the battery. Close all electrical equipment before and let neutral on the shift. Break the car. Find a cable more than 25 mm2 and connect it carefully with a NEW battery terminal to battery plus. Before connect the new terminal clean the battery terminal with a sand paper. Click the other end of the new cable on the STARTER terminal. It is under the car and be very careful. Just click it on the terminal,do not tie on. If the the car motor and the starter have a good relation you see motor to crank.
Be sure about the battery it is in good condition. If the motor cannot crank get starter out and replace the rings. A starter with ring problem can work out of the machine but cannot crank having a load like a motor to rotate.
DO NOT FORGET that battery Volt indication would be 0.5 or whatever only when there is a short circuit. That happens when starter can not move or if the battery itself is for the garbage.
After you are sure that your motor may crank remove one by one main fuses until one of them being out let you car start again.
Good Luck

 

[Southstoke]

Hi there, I'm running out of hair and I didn't have a lot to start with!

I've got starting issues with our motorhome, a 2005 Autotrail Dakota with a Fiat 2.8 jtd engine.

It all began a couple of weeks ago when I tried to start it, nothing bar a small click. Although the battery is connected to a CTEK charger when not in use, I thought it was the battery - it appeared to be the original. It showed a healthy voltage but I thought it simply might not have enough current to turn it over.
Replacement battery fitted, not a jot of difference.

Has to be a starter issue? ran a line from positive side of battery to S terminal on solonoid, nothing. Tried starting with key again, then noticed on the voltage panel, the battery voltage had dropped to 0.8 volts which would return to normal after 30 secs. At the same time there was a clunk as if a relay had disengaged - sound came from top centre of engine bay, quite possibly transmitted from passenger compartment.

Cleaned all earths, starter connections, positive terminal fuses, no duff fuses in any of the 3 fuse boxes. No difference.

Removed starter stripped and cleaned - solonoid free and brushes healthy. Cleaned and lubricated, bench tested, now it turns over but won't start!

I cannot (I've only got 1 working ear) hear the lift pump working, for now I'm assuming it won't start because there's no fuel. I've still got this massive voltage drop when starting along with jumping instrument needles when I stop trying to start it. Now my hazard warning switch is buzzing away when I try to operate them and what looks like a preheater/glow plug warning symbol lighting up - I've never, AFAIK, ever seen this lit!

There is a TOAD alarm/immob fitted, it's old and was fitted in 2005 - apparently it's a system with 2 immobiliser circuits fitted. I can't get any info' on how the system works or what circuit it cuts out...I'd have thought the starting and fuel circuits?
The standard Fiat immobiliser appears to be working - the light goes out as it should - so now problems, I think, with that.

My first thought is to remove this TOAD system. I've also got it in my head to change the starter solonoid...for no other reason than someone else did that to cure a no-start situation!

I'm sure there must be a solonoid to start the in tank fuel pump (lift pump?) If yes, where is it? Again I'm associating this with the sound coming from top of the bulkhead area of engine bay when I stop turning it over

A little frustrated and almost feel I'm clutching at straws now...any advice or guidance beyond removing the after market alarm system would be appreciated hugely.
I'd have it off to a repair shop if I thought it could be recovered there. I live on a hill and it takes a bit of to and fro'ing to get it out of the drive and onto the road!

Thanks

Hi Charlie
Its not an answer to your problem but my Fiat Ducato campervan (a 2004 Murvi) has totally died. Its got a Laserline alarm on it and it may be that, but you mention a Fiat immobiliser and Murvi think that may be the problem. Where is it and where is the light that you mention? Should the light go off when the key goes in, or how does it work?
Regards

Trevor

 

[BarryTNU]

Is it possible that the fuse able link on the positive lead has blown, and you are trying to draw starting current from your house batteries? The extreme voltage drop followed by full voltage after 30 secs sounds like a auto reset overload tripping out.
How fast is the engine cranking?? It has to wind over quite smartly to start.
My 2004 Ducato sometimes refuses to start, due, I think, to the immobilised not recognising the key code. Operating the remote locking a couple of times seems to fix it. Don't know why. I think Fiat has a "Department of making things difficult".