Technical 1.3MJ Timing Belt Kit - Garages not willing to undertake and warning off the job

[Jamie KC]

I've been ringing around for a quote on our wee Panda. The sump needs replacing as it has rusted through, and I've been considering getting the timing chain replaced too, as there are stories of them failing early, and there is a little low revs rattle that then disappears as the revs rise or throttle is more heavily applied.

I've had a few garages saying that they don't get involved in timing chains on that engine, fair enough as if the demand isn't there it means tooling up for it perhaps just as a one off.

I've had one garage quote £1200 for the whole lot, sump, full timing chain kit incl cover and oil pump, OF and oil.

One chatty garage said they don't do them as the job can go downhill very quickly, said a real pain to do and the bolts can snap in the crank pulley.

Any input on this appreciated. Is it that much of a pain? Are snapped pully bolts something encountered regularly on these? Is £1200 an obscene price for such a job?

Many thanks, Jamie

PS - I did try using the search function, but even though I use "timing chain kit" as the search term (and this is what is displayed when I click the search button) the results returned are for "timmy chang kit" which unsurprisingly doesnae help as much as I'd like!

 

[Bonefish Blues]

I just searched 'Buy Fiat 1.3 multijet timing chain and tensioners' and loads came up???

 

[Jamie KC]

I just searched 'Buy Fiat 1.3 multijet timing chain and tensioners' and loads came up???

Meant I'd searched on the forum for advice on changing it and problems, and the search function on the forum was changing my search terms.

On Google can find the parts no problem, but looking for advice on questions above as to whether it is as tricky as garage suggests?

And whether snapped pully bolts something encountered regularly on these?

Is £1200 an obscene price for such a job? Sump and full TC kit incl cover and pump.

 

[Bonefish Blues]

Ah, I see!

It does have a reputation as a proper p in the a job and gets priced accordingly. I found a post where a Fiat dealer was charging £450 in 2013 for the chain... Tbh all in, including parts for both jobs you're probably not a million miles away.

If you want a quote from a reputable specialist, perhaps try The Fiat Workshop in Royston, not because you're going to ship it down, but just as a benchmark?

 

[Eltezz]

I have already asked Ben at the Fiat workshop about this job as mine rattles at startup but then goes away within a second or two. He confirmed that it is a difficult job for them and they would need the car for two days. I didn't ask for a formal quote but he suggested somewhere in the region of £1500 using Fiat parts.

Personally, this is clearly a difficult job and I would not entrust it to a garage that hadn't done it before, not if I wanted to keep the car, anyway. When the time comes I will take it to them. This is one of the reasons there are no YouTube videos or web writeups on this job, it is too difficult to do correctly for most folk.

Regarding the pully bolts, I have watched plenty of videos for other cars that have this engine and are doable, i.e., front wheel drive Mitos, etc. and I have never seen anyone have a problem getting them undone. Sounds like an excuse not to do the job to me.

 

[gr0mit]

Have recently completed this job on a 1.3 multijet diesel on my 2008 fiorino van. Yes difficult. I am retired so no worries on time as I also have another car I can use.
Bought parts off of eBay. Van is currently running . Did it because fitted new crankshaft oil seal and put the timing out. Also with 80,000 miles on clock ,it was due. If I can answer any questions for you please ask . Gromit

 

[Eltezz]

Don’t forget, it’s a different story with the Panda for two reasons - almost no space to work in and a transfer box to remove as well…

 

[jrkitching]

Personally, this is clearly a difficult job and I would not entrust it to a garage that hadn't done it before

No more would I.

I remember a thread some while ago about someone who had a precautionary timing chain replacement done on a mJet Panda and it failed catastrophically a short while afterwards.

Given the age & mileage at which a timing chain replacement would be justified, and the value of a diesel Panda at that point, I'd not bother unless I were doing the work myself (and I definitely wouldn't want to do this job!).

Instead of spending £1500 on a car that's likely not worth much more than this, I'd just run the car until it broke, then scrap it.

 

[spidermania]

Any input on this appreciated. Many thanks, Jamie

The odds of a timing chain going bad are even less then the U.K. becoming a Republic. The gimmick was when some manufactures went to a belt to get us into the dealerships spending money, the money is not in selling vehicles it's made in the back room/garage.
1200 pounds did ya say, that's a bargain. But it's even less then that because you only need the rusted out sump replaced.

Aren't you glad you just saved money.

 

[jrkitching]

The odds of a timing chain going bad are even less then the U.K. becoming a Republic

On these small Fiat diesel engines, they actually fail quite frequently.

We've had far, far more chain failures reported here than we've had belt failures on the petrol engines.

It's a definite risk on a higher mileage car.

 

[Jamie KC]

Thanks all for all the info, pointers and advice. The search function on the forum has started talking english for me again so I've done some reading through various past threads too.

I think I've decided I'll do it whilst the sump needs replacing. Although there are suggestions that as an expensive job it's perhaps not worth spending the money on due to car value, for me it is a car worth spending the money on. It only has 60,000 miles on the clock now, but I'd like to see this spunky little car through to 150k + before we retire it. So, having read up on the chain fatigue and guides failing at lower mileages than you'd hope from a chain driven engine, and already having a little paranoia about the noise it makes, I'd rather not risk it. Better to change the kit every 60k than have the inconvenience of ignoring it and experience failure. A decent 10yr old Panda 4x4 isn't a cheap buy these days, so it won't be a throwaway car at 100k plus. Plus it's an important car to us; although my S Max is a much nicer daily driver, it's the Panda that gets us about when the snow and ice hit us here, it was an unstoppable force last winter in adverse conditions.

The main issue is not being able to find a garage locally that has done the job before, in a Panda 4x4 at least. So I'll go for a local garage with a good reputation that is happy to take the job on. With quotes now down to £700 plus vat they may have underquoted a bit if underestimated the job with respect to transfer box/gearbox being in the way, but add a couple more hours labour in and it still seems reasonable. They offer a guarantee on the work, and have a reputation to uphold, so...

I'm also happy to use an aftermarket kit. Most decent brands are good quality components these days, if I'm getting a belt kit then I'll accept Gates/Dayco/INA/SKF kit and consider it as good as OEM. So with the timing chain kit it should be similar, SKF/INA/Marelli all list kits. It's also apparent from reading various threads on teh forum, that OEM parts aren't often held in good regard anyway, and Fiat could potentially be accused of skipping on quality on various factory fitted parts. Also, a partial kit covering tensioner, pulleys, bolts, seals, guides and gasket ought to be fine; I can't see the need to replace the cover and pump unless there has already been a failure placing stress on these components.

Fingers crossed this is a wise move...

 

[Jamie KC]

To top it all off the clutch sh@t itself this morning. Pressed the pedal, it felt like a balloon burst underneath my foot and then wouldn't go into gear. Eventually started it in gear to move it off the junction, slipped all the way to the layby with the usual stinky clutch smell. Towed it home. Guess the jobs all go hand in hand with various drivetrain components obscuring the sump bolts, and the sump obscuring the timing chain replacement. Time to get the credit card out!

 

[Eltezz]

Do let is know how you get on, there may be many who will eventually be in your boots!

 

[OGITD]

The odds of a timing chain going bad are even less then the U.K. becoming a Republic. The gimmick was when some manufactures went to a belt to get us into the dealerships spending money, the money is not in selling vehicles it's made in the back room/garage.
1200 pounds did ya say, that's a bargain. But it's even less then that because you only need the rusted out sump replaced.

Aren't you glad you just saved money.

NOT AT ALL
The "timing chains" on the 1.3 (1.248) multijet diesels are thinner than some bicycle chains, and can and DO fail around the 80k mark ... (mind did just that) ... I had a snapped chain and broken rockers .... and it cost me £700 + vat for a full 'kit' replacement (with rockers.)