We bought "Becky" (2010 Panda Dynamic Eco 1.2) shortly after the turn of the year and almost right away realised that water was leaking into the boot. I was fortunate enough to get her for a very good price so was not particularly surprised that the dealer (quite a small concern) whilst not being unpleasant about it, was not interested in doing anything about it. I browsed our forum and found quite a few entries on the subject, mostly from people who were not succeeding in curing the problem! As there were other, more urgent things to do (timing belt etc) I decided to just mop up as needed and come back to it later. Then the good weather came and it wasn't raining and we were going on holiday so it got put back again!? Last few days though the rain is back and the boot floor is swimming! So better try to track it down before winter sets in!
First I emptied out everything in the boot and found that the boot liner which sits on top of the spare wheel was soaking wet around the pull strap and foam pad which rests against the rear panel (just below the lock)
The boot floor had a good couple of sponge fulls of water in the wheel well
Which I cleared out. This was just after one night of moderate rainfall
I had a really good look and feel round the boot and under the rear seat. Below the rear window seals etc, etc. All dry but as I was doing this I quickly noticed that there was water around the lock fitting and a small drop further down the panel inside the boot. There were also "witness" marks on the inside of the panel around the exit "flapy thing" which lets air out through the rear panel which indicated that water had been running down from the area of the lock
At first I though water was getting into the rear hatch somehow and running out through the lock to dribble down the inside. Strangely though, although the parts you can see in the pictures above were very wet there was no sign of water on the lock in the hatch or any sign of water leaking from inside the hatch. OK. Maybe it's something to do with the seal? So I carefully pulled the seal off all along the bottom of the aperture. Starting just to the right (Off Side) of the lock I was immediately greeted with wetness.
If you look carefully you can see that there is dampness to the left of my thumb but not to the right of it. This picture was of the seal where it fits in the bottom right corner Continuing to pull the seal off until I had almost half of it off, up to about a foot vertically on the left (Near Side) and almost to the top on the right (Off Side) - because that was the side where the water seemed to be - it was obvious that water was lying inside the section to the right of the lock but not to the left or any higher up the sides. The inside of the "U" section of the seal was very wet as was the flange on the body, but only that bottom part, from the lock to the corner where the seal starts to go vertical. Oh, hello, do I see sealant in the bottom of the "U" section of the rubber seal?
Looks like glazier's putty? And not very much of it either. As I look round more of the seal I've already pulled off I can see further evidence of it. Looks like someone else has been in here before me chasing this leak.
Water leaks can be very difficult to sort. I remember, when new to this game and being the "Laddy" who was often shut in the boot to look for leaks whilst one of the "men" played a hose on the outside, being amazed to learn that water can happily travel "uphill", by capillary action between seals and panel joints, to reappear quite some distance and "uphill" from it's entry point. So I don't like to rush too hurriedly, into action before considering all the clues. Went and made a cup of tea and stood looking at it for a wee while. Oh, wait a minute, just look at that panel joint.
If you look just to the right of the flange you can see an overlapping panel joint which runs downwards towards the left and is not completely flush so forming a very small "groove" through which water can run from the outside to the inside of the "U" of the seal. Interestingly this is where the wetness starts which you can see in the picture featuring my thumb! I'm about 90% sure I've found it now!
But why doesn't the other side (Near Side) have the same problem? It's completely dry and there is the same panel joint? Look carefully.
The joint runs downwards towards the right so it's encouraging water to run towards the seal isn't it? well yes, but look at the witness marks (black) where the seal has been gripping. Continuous right through the area of the joint isn't it? Which seems to indicate that the seal deformed enough to effect a seal but also, just to the left hand end of the joint is a depression (it's clearer with the naked eye) which is not there on the right hand side joint, which I think will be encouraging water to flow down and away from the "groove" of the joint?
So what to do now. Well I think it's highly likely the water is getting behind the rubber in that right hand corner and then running along the "U" section to reappear at the lock where it's then running down the inside of the rear panel to collect in the wheel well. The person who tried to cure it before me had the right idea but maybe didn't actually isolate where the leak was as he/she applied sealant all round - or maybe just decided to cover all the bases? Also nothing like enough sealant was applied and the sealant itself was not the best choice and unlikely to be effective. I intend to use Geocel "The Works" which can be applied to dry and/or wet surfaces. Not the cheapest but wicked stuff! Just hope I don't have to remove it later!
Hope that others experiencing this problem find this useful. I'm needing to buy service items for my youngest boy's wife's Jazz so I'll stop by Screwfix on the way to buy the sealant. I'll give it a few weeks and report back on whether it's cured or not - "Cured", get it? Oh dear, I've been sat at this computer for too long! Keep your fingers crossed for me!
Regards to all
Jock
First I emptied out everything in the boot and found that the boot liner which sits on top of the spare wheel was soaking wet around the pull strap and foam pad which rests against the rear panel (just below the lock)
The boot floor had a good couple of sponge fulls of water in the wheel well
Which I cleared out. This was just after one night of moderate rainfall
I had a really good look and feel round the boot and under the rear seat. Below the rear window seals etc, etc. All dry but as I was doing this I quickly noticed that there was water around the lock fitting and a small drop further down the panel inside the boot. There were also "witness" marks on the inside of the panel around the exit "flapy thing" which lets air out through the rear panel which indicated that water had been running down from the area of the lock
At first I though water was getting into the rear hatch somehow and running out through the lock to dribble down the inside. Strangely though, although the parts you can see in the pictures above were very wet there was no sign of water on the lock in the hatch or any sign of water leaking from inside the hatch. OK. Maybe it's something to do with the seal? So I carefully pulled the seal off all along the bottom of the aperture. Starting just to the right (Off Side) of the lock I was immediately greeted with wetness.
If you look carefully you can see that there is dampness to the left of my thumb but not to the right of it. This picture was of the seal where it fits in the bottom right corner Continuing to pull the seal off until I had almost half of it off, up to about a foot vertically on the left (Near Side) and almost to the top on the right (Off Side) - because that was the side where the water seemed to be - it was obvious that water was lying inside the section to the right of the lock but not to the left or any higher up the sides. The inside of the "U" section of the seal was very wet as was the flange on the body, but only that bottom part, from the lock to the corner where the seal starts to go vertical. Oh, hello, do I see sealant in the bottom of the "U" section of the rubber seal?
Looks like glazier's putty? And not very much of it either. As I look round more of the seal I've already pulled off I can see further evidence of it. Looks like someone else has been in here before me chasing this leak.
Water leaks can be very difficult to sort. I remember, when new to this game and being the "Laddy" who was often shut in the boot to look for leaks whilst one of the "men" played a hose on the outside, being amazed to learn that water can happily travel "uphill", by capillary action between seals and panel joints, to reappear quite some distance and "uphill" from it's entry point. So I don't like to rush too hurriedly, into action before considering all the clues. Went and made a cup of tea and stood looking at it for a wee while. Oh, wait a minute, just look at that panel joint.
If you look just to the right of the flange you can see an overlapping panel joint which runs downwards towards the left and is not completely flush so forming a very small "groove" through which water can run from the outside to the inside of the "U" of the seal. Interestingly this is where the wetness starts which you can see in the picture featuring my thumb! I'm about 90% sure I've found it now!
But why doesn't the other side (Near Side) have the same problem? It's completely dry and there is the same panel joint? Look carefully.
The joint runs downwards towards the right so it's encouraging water to run towards the seal isn't it? well yes, but look at the witness marks (black) where the seal has been gripping. Continuous right through the area of the joint isn't it? Which seems to indicate that the seal deformed enough to effect a seal but also, just to the left hand end of the joint is a depression (it's clearer with the naked eye) which is not there on the right hand side joint, which I think will be encouraging water to flow down and away from the "groove" of the joint?
So what to do now. Well I think it's highly likely the water is getting behind the rubber in that right hand corner and then running along the "U" section to reappear at the lock where it's then running down the inside of the rear panel to collect in the wheel well. The person who tried to cure it before me had the right idea but maybe didn't actually isolate where the leak was as he/she applied sealant all round - or maybe just decided to cover all the bases? Also nothing like enough sealant was applied and the sealant itself was not the best choice and unlikely to be effective. I intend to use Geocel "The Works" which can be applied to dry and/or wet surfaces. Not the cheapest but wicked stuff! Just hope I don't have to remove it later!
Hope that others experiencing this problem find this useful. I'm needing to buy service items for my youngest boy's wife's Jazz so I'll stop by Screwfix on the way to buy the sealant. I'll give it a few weeks and report back on whether it's cured or not - "Cured", get it? Oh dear, I've been sat at this computer for too long! Keep your fingers crossed for me!
Regards to all
Jock
