agavins
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Well it appears to be the same on the new 319 4x4 Panda as the old one - clockwise for both sides. If its not, I have busted a caliper and will find out shortly.... 
Technical 4x4 Rear brake discs
- Thread starter julzgeraghty
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Technical 4x4 Rear brake discs
Hi all,
I am mid way through changing rear disk rotors and pads on 2014 panda 4x4 Cross.
There is a simple solution.
I will post pictures tomorrow if it is not too wet.
Jack up car, remove road wheel.
Remove the slider pin bolts on caliper and lift it free.
Now because the caliper guide frame (8mm hex) bolts are obscured, we must renove the 4 star-head / torx bolts that hold the hub to the trailing arm.
I used a 14mm “wall drive” socket - it fits!
These are hard to reach so you need a long ratchet or breaker bar and short and long extensions - percevere!!
It is vital that the last one you undo is the lower rear as it is easiest to remove (i applied wd40 to all).
Once all of these awkward bolts are out, the hub will move freely.
There is a fair amount of wiggle room and wiggle you must.
Rotate the hub a bit until the first 8mm hex head is lined up with that odd cut-out in the back end of the training arm assembly. Stick hex wrench in and remove it. Now rotate hub and line up the other 8mm hex head with the cut-out and remove it. (I stuck a meaty screw driver into the guide frame to prevent it rotating and damaging cv boot as I undid the hex bolts.
Now the caliper guide frame is free.
Remove the pins from the disk (12mm ring spanner).
Tap the disk free from the hub.
Now build back up with new disk rotor, pads etc.
Take care to remove all rust scale under the spring clips and lubricate carefully with the correct lubricant to prevent pads sticking in the caliper as this will trash your disk again.
Use threadlock where needed.
I hope this is useful!
No need to remove driveshaft, hub bearing, or hub nut. Integrity of hub bearing is not affected.
Do the dealers know about this?
I am mid way through changing rear disk rotors and pads on 2014 panda 4x4 Cross.
There is a simple solution.
I will post pictures tomorrow if it is not too wet.
Jack up car, remove road wheel.
Remove the slider pin bolts on caliper and lift it free.
Now because the caliper guide frame (8mm hex) bolts are obscured, we must renove the 4 star-head / torx bolts that hold the hub to the trailing arm.
I used a 14mm “wall drive” socket - it fits!
These are hard to reach so you need a long ratchet or breaker bar and short and long extensions - percevere!!
It is vital that the last one you undo is the lower rear as it is easiest to remove (i applied wd40 to all).
Once all of these awkward bolts are out, the hub will move freely.
There is a fair amount of wiggle room and wiggle you must.
Rotate the hub a bit until the first 8mm hex head is lined up with that odd cut-out in the back end of the training arm assembly. Stick hex wrench in and remove it. Now rotate hub and line up the other 8mm hex head with the cut-out and remove it. (I stuck a meaty screw driver into the guide frame to prevent it rotating and damaging cv boot as I undid the hex bolts.
Now the caliper guide frame is free.
Remove the pins from the disk (12mm ring spanner).
Tap the disk free from the hub.
Now build back up with new disk rotor, pads etc.
Take care to remove all rust scale under the spring clips and lubricate carefully with the correct lubricant to prevent pads sticking in the caliper as this will trash your disk again.
Use threadlock where needed.
I hope this is useful!
No need to remove driveshaft, hub bearing, or hub nut. Integrity of hub bearing is not affected.
Do the dealers know about this?
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Here are some pictures that illustrate my successful attempt at changing of the rear disk rotors and pads on my 2014 4x4 Cross.
See the post above for relevance.
As ever, I hope this helps someone...
Pic 1 - i am pointing at the cut-out in the rear trailing arm.
Pic 2 - this is a 14mm wall-drive socket - it fits the star/torx head bolts which fasten the hub to the trailing arm
Pic 3 - the star/torx head bolt.
Pic 4 - the 8mm hex bit in the 8mm hex bolt which secures the caliper guide frame to the hub.
Happy trails!
See the post above for relevance.
As ever, I hope this helps someone...
Pic 1 - i am pointing at the cut-out in the rear trailing arm.
Pic 2 - this is a 14mm wall-drive socket - it fits the star/torx head bolts which fasten the hub to the trailing arm
Pic 3 - the star/torx head bolt.
Pic 4 - the 8mm hex bit in the 8mm hex bolt which secures the caliper guide frame to the hub.
Happy trails!
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Thank you!
Good to see that in fact the designers did think about this - why else would that 'odd cut out' be there? But, how easy was it to reach the four bolts holding the hub assembly? Could you do it off a jack or was the car on a lift?
I bet the dealers do know... but only if they choose to find out
The Panda Nut
Nutty about Pandas Infected by Panda virus and OPD
Yes but due to forum rules I can't tell you!
No, the rear axle does not need to be removed. See @YellowCar's post three posts back, where the procedure is explained in detail (with photos in the next post). The designers designed in access... so long as those doing the job know that its here. Was yours done at the dealer?
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Currently doing this. It's just constant rusted bolt hell. Got everything off using a massive range of tools and heat, and now down to the final locating dowel holding the disc on. It won't budge. I'm rapidly heading towards angle grinder and live with a single dowel. They don't seem to be particularly vital. Godawful job.
Ground it off. I don't have time to drill the rest out and fit a new, so it'll have to do until I get around to it (maybe next summer). I guess the only concern will be whenever the wheel comes off, the disc may be a little loose with only one dowel, but given how everything seems to weld itself in place with rust I doubt it will ever be an issue.
You will be fine. I've driven several Fiats with only one dowel or bolt (or in some cases even none).
gr J
gr J
Thanks. It's all back together. 2 days to pull it all apart - an hour to put it all back together. Mind you, I dislocated a shoulder a month ago, so only have 1.4 arms right now - so that didn't help. A few additional tips. 1. Undo the bolt at the bottom of the damper and swing the damper out of the way. Makes it much easier to access the hub bolts. 2. The hub needs a fair amount of manipulation to get the caliper frame bolts properly exposed. Once you have a position lock everything in place with various Heath Robinson structures so you can get some leverage on those evil caliper frame hex bolts (appropriately named nasties) - be prepared to attack with fire round the hex heads to get them loose. 3) I bolted the hub back in place with a couple of bolts for the disc removal. It helped. I also wish I'd removed the disc locating dowels when the caliper was still in place with the handbrake still attached. 4) The disc locating dowels look easy after all you've been through with the hub and caliper frame bolts, but they're not - they hate you, and one may need decapitating if your day is not to be totally destroyed. 5) A knee is a handy tool when putting the caliper frame back on. Good luck. It's hell. But a lot cheaper than handing it over to a stealer.
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YellowCar, great instructions along with the subsequent pictures. So much so that I had a go at it this weekend. So my experience (it's a 63 plate TA 4x4 68k miles);
Everything is done up tight but generally due to threadlock rather than corrosion so get good fitting sockets and do use allen socket drivers for the 8mm calliper carrier (you need a long one to reach the allen bolt while clearing the hub carrier - see YellowCar's picture). It was the first time I'd worked with the inside out Torx bolts and had invested in the correct size half inch drive version but found a 15mm 3/8 drive was a good fit and easier to run the four hub carrier bolts on and off once loosened.
A good call to take the bottom damper bolt out and tie the damper to one side.
I did take the precaution of removing the ABS sensor (5mm allen) as there's a risk of it taking the rotational forces if your big screwdriver or whatever you're using to prevent rotation slips.
Loosen the disc retaining bolts first (while full handbrake functionality is available and you can put it in gear) a deep 12mm socket.
New discs should always have new pads; mine were OEM from the shop on this site and well worth the money with new springs and bolts for the carrier (with screwlock ready applied). The new springs had additional curly springs which I think are intended for anti-rattle(?). I'll try and post a picture.
Don't forget the pistons will need retracting for the new pads. I don't have the proper tool but found pressure from a suitable clamp while rotating piston with an adjustable spanner worked just fine. Take the brake fluid filler cap off and put some rags or tissue to catch any overflow.
I was working with a trolley jack and axle stand and did one side at a time; while on the axle stand I also used a bottle jack to support the swinging arm (stops it moving against the coil spring when applying pressure to all those threadlocked fasteners).
It is good advice to take out the tricky bolts first so it gets less frustrating as you progress.
It took me a few hours slowly working on the first side but it all goes back together pretty quickly. This was a job that didn't "need" to be done but the original discs were rather crusty at the edges but not worn per se; they don't have much to do after all...
Eh up all,
Big thanks to all, I did some maintenance on mine today, managed to get one disc off in just short of 4 hours.
What a bl88dy job:bang:
Those e16 are a PiA to get off, didn’t use heat but various wobble bars and a breaker bar came into action. God there a pig to get off, worked from top right round, spot on leaving easiest to last.
The 8mm hex bolts on carrier came of ok, I used Woden blocks to stop disc rotation by wedging the carrier onto them.
Also the ABS sensor can be un clipped along the swing arm so easier than trying to get the hex out and remove. It gives plenty of play to rotate the disc without over stretch if you are careful.
Made a guess at torque up - did it f££#ing tight .
Going to do other side tomorrow not looking forward got to be honest.
The disc itself wAs reasonable, ran a wheel round and also took an edge of the pads and copper ease as they were really tight in the carrier and spring release clips were stuck solid not working as pad far too tight in. Now the pads move freely so I’m hoping better wear and more effective on the rear now.
Hope this helps and as stated far cheaper than a dealer .
Cheers all.:worship:
Big thanks to all, I did some maintenance on mine today, managed to get one disc off in just short of 4 hours.
What a bl88dy job:bang:
Those e16 are a PiA to get off, didn’t use heat but various wobble bars and a breaker bar came into action. God there a pig to get off, worked from top right round, spot on leaving easiest to last.
The 8mm hex bolts on carrier came of ok, I used Woden blocks to stop disc rotation by wedging the carrier onto them.
Also the ABS sensor can be un clipped along the swing arm so easier than trying to get the hex out and remove. It gives plenty of play to rotate the disc without over stretch if you are careful.
Made a guess at torque up - did it f££#ing tight .
Going to do other side tomorrow not looking forward got to be honest.
The disc itself wAs reasonable, ran a wheel round and also took an edge of the pads and copper ease as they were really tight in the carrier and spring release clips were stuck solid not working as pad far too tight in. Now the pads move freely so I’m hoping better wear and more effective on the rear now.
Hope this helps and as stated far cheaper than a dealer .
Cheers all.:worship:
My E16 bolts were relatively easy once I'd worked out how to approach them and the kind of extension needed. The top right was easiest to get by approaching from the wheel well/over the disc with no extension. The others were attacked from under the car. Bottom right needed a long extension. Top left needed a medium length. Also used that for the 'easy' bolt.
My nightmares were the caliper frame bolts. Before attacking with heat they were so stuck that they twisted my 8mm hex attachment.
And one of the disc attachment dowels refused to move with every 12mm socket, spanner, whatever I could find.
And it's all been working great back there since doing it
My nightmares were the caliper frame bolts. Before attacking with heat they were so stuck that they twisted my 8mm hex attachment.
And one of the disc attachment dowels refused to move with every 12mm socket, spanner, whatever I could find.
And it's all been working great back there since doing it
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Did this job today, it was not as bad as I thought.
Thanks to you guys for posting how to do it, with your help it was a breeze. (Just accept that it takes some time)
Everything came apart ok, had to put some new rivets on the braking shields as they had come loose.
Now it is hanging on the lift waiting for new pads, which should arrive shortly.
Thanks to you guys for posting how to do it, with your help it was a breeze. (Just accept that it takes some time)
Everything came apart ok, had to put some new rivets on the braking shields as they had come loose.
Now it is hanging on the lift waiting for new pads, which should arrive shortly.
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Just wondering how many hours labour does this job take?
This is going to be the next job needed on my 2014 4x4 Antarctica.
The panda allways looks a little odd on a ramp especially with the rear wheels off with it being so small
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Allow a day (with out time pressure you will be done by lunchtime). With the right fitting sockets you'll be done well inside 5 hours. I took the time to lubricate the handbrake mechanism too. Don't forget you need something to screw the rear callipers in to accept the new pads (always fit new pads with new discs). I used a G-cramp to apply compression and adjustable spanner to rotate - worked for me...
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Im adding this comment here only to bring 'the answer' back to the end as it's been hidden by subsequent comments.
This link goes to the excellent post number 42 of this thread by YellowCar that (along with the one that follows it) explains how to get to removing the disc (the challenge is getting access to remove the calliper bolts). You might read back through the whole thread to see what you are up against: https://www.fiatforum.com/panda-iii/panda-iii/panda-iii/panda-iii/...ml#post4377889 -
This link goes to the excellent post number 42 of this thread by YellowCar that (along with the one that follows it) explains how to get to removing the disc (the challenge is getting access to remove the calliper bolts). You might read back through the whole thread to see what you are up against: https://www.fiatforum.com/panda-iii/panda-iii/panda-iii/panda-iii/...ml#post4377889 -
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