Technical Strange dash and cab lights issue: break lights?

[Roadtonowhere]

Hi all! New here and already read lot of useful things on this forum!
Recently I have encountered a strange issue on my 2009 3.0 fiat ducato van. After a particulary rainy drive I went to turn off the engine and remove the key after which the dash lighs suddenly came back on, as well as the interior cab lights. Also, all the fault messages came on the dash (in text). After some fumbling around, starting the car and turning it off again, pressing the pedals, even locking the car, the issue went away.

This happened a few more times after the first incident and I've discovered that, when the key is removed and the lights have turned on, I can turn them of again by pressing the break pedal(???), they then sometimes turn on again when the break pedal is released, sometimes they stay off. The rear break lights also come on in this scenario, although faintly.

I guess there must me some sort of grounding issue, where the leaking power to the dash/cab light is rerouted to the break lights when the pedal is pressed. I've checked the obvious ones, and have also removed the main fuse box under the hood, where water often accumulates, but it was clean and dry.
Are there any other obvious places I could look? Would be much appreciated!

 

[Roadtonowhere]

Hi all! New here and already read lot of useful things on this forum!
Recently I have encountered a strange issue on my 2009 3.0 citroen jumper van, which basically is a ducato. After a particulary rainy drive I went to turn off the engine and remove the key after which the dash lighs suddenly came back on, as well as the interior cab lights. Also, all the fault messages came on the dash (in text). After some fumbling around, starting the car and turning it off again, pressing the pedals, even locking the car, the issue went away.

This happened a few more times after the first incident and I've discovered that, when the key is removed and the lights have turned on, I can turn them of again by pressing the break pedal(???), they then sometimes turn on again when the break pedal is released, sometimes they stay off. The rear break lights also come on in this scenario, although faintly.

I guess there must me some sort of grounding issue, where the leaking power to the dash/cab light is rerouted to the break lights when the pedal is pressed. I've checked the obvious ones, and have also removed the main fuse box under the hood, where water often accumulates, but it was clean and dry.
Are there any other obvious places I could look? Would be much appreciated!

 

[Roadtonowhere]

i've just looked under the LH headlight for a loom that can be damaged as some of you have suggested in other topics. It looks fine but has many exposed wires, is this normal?(Can be affected during rain?)

 

[the green vanper]

Hello,

Welcome to the forum. And the usual Ducato x250 problem...

There are lots of posts about this issue on all Ducato / Motorhome forums.

There are 2 common problem in the x250 that causes many electrical issues:

- water ingress from the bottom of the windshield and the poorly designed system that should evacuate water from it
- poor earth cables (they tend to rot, also inside).

Here's a link to the online eLearn:

Home Page

aftersales.fiat.com

You can go back to the model selection page and change the language, Dutch should be available, but the translation could be crappy and I'm not sure if all the pages are translated It happened to me that the English page was not available, but the Polish was working fine in the same moment. The site sometimes gets unavailable for a longer period of time (probably due to some authentication issues), but you can also download the offline eLearn module from the download section of the forum here. There are 2 downloads available, both are the same target file, but one is a single file to download, the other is divided into 6 parts. You need to download the file(s), unzip it (to have the ISO file). Then you have to mount the iso image in the virtual drive (I'm personally using UltraISO) and install eLearn on a PC to use it, you also need to have the file mounted to the virtual drive.

So, both the offline and the online eLearn modules have sections. Check the service news and the campaigns - they often provide solutions or at least indications of the common causes.

There's also a section dedicated to the documentation - with diagrams, descriptions and often part numbers of the connectors. There's a diagram with the earth points for example. I will be changing the main earth cable to a good quality, insulated welding wire, as I did last year in my daily car I will also make a second, parallel cable to be sure it will last forever

From the symptoms I assume your problem is related to the water in the looms or modules / fuse boxes.

On the last photo you've posted you can see the dirt on the cables. There should be a plastic cover on the right hand side of the huge Tyco connector that covers the cables. I've tried to find some photos of this cover on my phone, but I haven't taken any. And the van is parked in another part of the city The problem is that the water fill flow down the loom

 

[Roadtonowhere]

Thanks so much for your thorough reply! I'm kinda relieved that it is at least a common issue, not so much with the cable-rotting remark though haha.
I know about the water ingress issues and have taken the necessary precautions by sealing the scuttle and adding additional ways the water can flow away. But probably some damage has been done. A month ago the car has been at the mechanic where it came up with a sticking starter relay, also water damage. I'll have a look at the elearing material. Do you think it is a good start to clean out all these connectors seen in the photo and try and find this cover you're talking about? I'll have to find a way to correctly and efficiently do this and maybe it solves the issue, fingers crossed!

 

[the green vanper]

Yes, drying / cleaning and eventually replacing the damaged terminals is always a good idea

For the earth cable rotting, it is rotting also due to the water getting inside. The cable should be replaced with a good quality copper cable, a copper terminal should be crimped, the end of the cable should be soldered and a heatshrink should be used to cover the joint. A small amount of high temperature resistant silicone can be put below the heatshrink sleeve.

I've bought myself a couple of years ago a manual hydraulic crimper on aliexpress, works like a charm for those thick cables and terminals.

 

[Roadtonowhere]

Yes! I've got one like that as well as I just did the complete MH electrics for the van (converter, (solar-)charger, etc), so that will come in handy then

 

[Roadtonowhere]

I've found the issue! Its the (aftermarket) radio. when i unplug it, the problem dissapears =). I've been doing some wiring there and i think i messed up, lets redo some of that =). Thanks for the suggestion anyway, the cables and electrics in the motor compartment needed some care too...