General Newbie considering a brand new Ducato Camper

[rjp]

Hi everyone and greetings from sunny Switzerland.

We've been considering getting a camper for a while and have settled on a Sunlight 540 RT Cliff, the logic being if it's a brand new camper and we have it properly serviced, then it should last many many years, someone correct me if I'm wrong on that.

Anyway, we'll probably only drive 6,000 - 10,000 km a year max and I see it should be serviced every two years. Does this sound about right, what costs should I be expecting? I see the cambelt needs changing every two years, what else? I need to make sure that this purchase wouldn't be a money-pit.

 

[The Panda Nut]

Hi and welcome to the forum.
I am only aware of the Ducato's but always thought that they would be solid and reliable, and Im sure that most are, but search this forum regarding engines fitted with the adblue injection system as there are clearly some serious design faults and unresolved issues that are costing quite a lot of owners HUGE sums of money. Its clear that vehicles so equipped should be avoided until you are clear on the issue and that its now got a solution.

 

[varesecrazy]

Hi and welcome to the forum.
I am only aware of the Ducato's but always thought that they would be solid and reliable, and Im sure that most are, but search this forum regarding engines fitted with the adblue injection system as there are clearly some serious design faults and unresolved issues that are costing quite a lot of owners HUGE sums of money. Its clear that vehicles so equipped should be avoided until you are clear on the issue and that its now got a solution.

Historically...

Peugeot, Citroen and Fiat are popular camper base vehicles
All built at the same SEVEL Factory

30 years ago.. That was novel.. Now of course they are all part of Stellantis. Vehicle Group


Yes.. DPF can be a problem with little use... But on a New vehicle you have no option. DPF, ADBLU., FAP. etc


One other consideration..

Timing drive:

Timing Belts 'age'.. Every 4 to 6 years you need a belt change

A chain is Inside the motor.. Running through oil

This will only degrade through Use.. Not time

If you take 10 years to cover 100,000 kms this may save you money!

This forum gives a good flavour of the various issues with certain engines.. And Build

The semi. Auto gearbox can also be a problem

Read more

 

[VinceS]

Whatever motorhome is based on it will be a standard commercial cab and chassis, generally designed for regular high mileage. If you look on fora for any of them there will be lists of issues with them, whatever make. People don't go onto fora to say that their vehicle is running fine!
The majority of owners don't have any major issues.
We have a 2015 Ducato based MH that has had no major problems so far.
The ducato cam belt only needs changing every 5-6 years unless you are doing vast mileages. Ours cost £400 to replace last year at a local independent garage.
Also if it is brand you would have the Fiat warranty period for initial problems.

 

[rjp]

Wow, three helpful comments on a newbie welcome post! A very heartwarming welcome to this forum thank you all. Perhaps a tiny bit more about myself as well, I don't have much experience with engines in general, having only owned a car for a couple of years now and my parents also had no experience, so I'm really coming to this as a complete n00b, so to say.

@varesecrazy an excellent point about timing belts vs chains. But I presume I don't have any choice here, when selecting a motorhome? A friend of mine mentioned that some VW buses have a timing chain.

@The Panda Nut after your comment I did search for Adblue problems and a few scary posts turned up, but they seem to be spaced over several years so it doesn't sound like an epidemic? And as @VinceS mentioned, nobody comes to a forum to talk about when things are running fine.

 

[portland_bill]

With adblue, read the handbook instructions carefully, and try to follow them exactly.
A few key points.
When it asks for a top up, don't delay, as if it gets too low, the vehicle stops. I've seen posts where people top up with plain water, which seems to fool the system for a short while, so could be a good 'get-you-home' measure.
Adblue tends to crystallize, so needs to be used, not stood idle, so try to use the motorhome regularly, all year. If you think there's some crystallisation in the tank, a little dilution with water may work, but note, this is a theory only, so at you own risk.
Careful when topping up the adblue. Do not overfill. Many tanks have the electronic control unit mounted on top, (easier for build of the vehicle), and overfilling can lead to the adblue getting into the electronics, requiring a full tank replacement. (Very expensive) Ford Transit seems to be most susceptible to this.

Treat it as directed, it'll be no trouble.

Regularly get the engine hot, and running steadily, such as on a main road or motorway, and let the DPF regenerate. That'll keep DPF issues at bay.

If buying brand new, ensure it gets registered with the manufacturer with the correct date of sale, to get the warranty registered, and at teh right time. These vehicles sit with the motorhome builders for some time, and there can be squabbles with some manufacturers about start of warranty.

 

[VinceS]

Whether an engine has a timing belt or chain wouldn't be a decision point for a motorhome for me, the cost of replacing it every few years isn't very much in the overall cost of running a motorhome!

 

[varesecrazy]

Whether an engine has a timing belt or chain wouldn't be a decision point for a motorhome for me, the cost of replacing it every few years isn't very much in the overall cost of running a motorhome!

Recalling the common belt failures with the Water ingress on the older diesels
I would rather have a chain.. As its inboard

Just making the OP aware of the many things to consider

 

[theoneandonly]

One thing to be aware of with the new engines in Seval vans Peugeot Citroen have been using Ad blue since 2016 and the internet is awash with Adblu issues. the new Fiat also 2.2 litres with adblu is of different origin (jeep) whether this is a safer bet is as yet unknown. you are in a good place to keep your new motor running, but please be aware that British MOT rules are different to Switzerland and type approval system is also different . If you want towbars or air assist suspention discuss with your dealer beforehand as this type of change is expensive in many European countries but sensible over here.
AND Welcome.

 

[rjp]

I just logged back in after a week. Thank you everyone for the input, appreciated, really.

I've put the plan on hold, temporarily or not, I'm not sure. There's the https://suissecaravansalon.ch/ taking place at the end of October, which will allow me to compare and contrast. I'll no doubt be back with more questions then

 

[portland_bill]

I just logged back in after a week. Thank you everyone for the input, appreciated, really.

I've put the plan on hold, temporarily or not, I'm not sure. There's the https://suissecaravansalon.ch/ taking place at the end of October, which will allow me to compare and contrast. I'll no doubt be back with more questions then

While there, any you like, ask them how old the vehicle is likely to be, and what their procedure is for registering warranty. Their answers may help you decide.

 

[Reg 65]

We went through a long period of vehicles including the Ducato becoming more reliable.
But now they seem to be becoming less reliable and more difficult to fix, as there is so much more to go wrong - adblu, DPF, Start Stop, Smart alternators, fragile electronic sensors everywhere..making it all far more complicated and less space under the bonnet

 

[Reg 65]

Due to their popularity with motorhome builders, Stellantis vans seem to be mostly owned by private individuals who go on forums to complain about them when they go wrong
Wheras other makes like MB & VW are mostly owned by businesses and repaired by their own fitters or commercial garages, who don't go on forums to complain about them when they go wrong.
So the number of complaints we see on forums like this one is no guide to the reliability of different makes.

 

[portland_bill]

Due to their popularity with motorhome builders, Stellantis vans seem to be mostly owned by private individuals who go on forums to complain about them when they go wrong
Wheras other makes like MB & VW are mostly owned by businesses and repaired by their own fitters or commercial garages, who don't go on forums to complain about them when they go wrong.
So the number of complaints we see on forums like this one is no guide to the reliability of different makes.

I meet a lot of van drivers in my work, so get to hear of many issues, mostly regarding DPF and AdBlue. The issues seem similar across all makes. None of them like lots of short journeys, or not being used for long periods and overfilled AdBlue tanks cause issues. Resonable journeys, regularly, and careful AdBlue refilling avoid most issues. Need to use the camper at least once a month.

 

[rjp]

I meet a lot of van drivers in my work, so get to hear of many issues, mostly regarding DPF and AdBlue. The issues seem similar across all makes. None of them like lots of short journeys, or not being used for long periods and overfilled AdBlue tanks cause issues. Resonable journeys, regularly, and careful AdBlue refilling avoid most issues. Need to use the camper at least once a month.

What counts as a long period? It's mandatory to have different winter and summer tyres here in Switzerland, so there's no chance of it being used over winter. I imagine letting it idle every week won't be enough?

Also, what counts as a short journey? There are lots of gorgeous camping places within 60 minutes driving of where I live.

 

[portland_bill]

What counts as a long period?

This will not affect the DPF, but may result in the AdBlue drying out and crystallising. I don't know what you need to do about that, you'll need to do some research. I'm thinking a full AdBlue tank might be better than one with less in it, as any crystallisation should be at the top. Although it might be better to drain it for the lay-up.

It's mandatory to have different winter and summer tyres here in Switzerland, so there's no chance of it being used over winter.

Can you use winter tyres all year around? Or must you use summers. Winters used in the summer can get a little squidgy, but this is only really a problem on high performance cars, not on gently driven vans.

I imagine letting it idle every week won't be enough?

That is likely to upset the DPF.

Also, what counts as a short journey? There are lots of gorgeous camping places within 60 minutes driving of where I live.

To get the engine properly warm, being a diesel, needs at least 20 minutes. Ideally with a good stretch of constant speed towards the end of that. Might have to plan the routes to take the long way around.

 

[Anthony489]

Hi

The vehicle you are looking at is based on the Fiat Ducato panel van.

Although built in the same factory as the Peugeot and Citroen vans, since 2020 the Fiat uses the Stellantis 2184 cc Multijet 3 Euro 6d engine which is not the same as the Peugeot/ Citroen 2179 cc engine. The Fiat engine is similar to one used for the diesel Jeep. It uses a timing belt which must be replaced every 5 or 6 years, unless you do a very high mileage. As with nearly all Euro 6d engines it is fitted with the full range of emission control equipment including Adblue, a liquid with its own small tank that needs filling from time to time. The diesel particulate filter (DPF) will benefit from occasional periods of sustained speed (100 km/h or more) to burn off accumulated soot.

If you choose automatic transmission, since 2020 this is a 9 speed true torque converter automatic and not the same as the earlier 6 speed "automated manual"

By all means look at forums, but concentrate on posts for Ducatos newer than 2020, older types of engine and transmission are less relevant.

All vehicles, especially commercials, benefit from a minimum road use of say 50 km every month. Just running the engine does more harm than good. If you can store somewhere sheltered from rain and snow, or use a fabric cover, it will prevent water falling on the engine and not being dried off by engine heat.

If you are offered the option of 140 PS instead of 120 PS, driving performance will be improved and the penalty in fuel usage will be small.

Good Luck

 

[rjp]

So I took the plunge and bought one, welcome Clifford! Fingers crossed for many years of smooth running.

And of course I'm here with another question. It seems that there is no under engine plate. The garage I bought it from says that normal but a lot seems to be exposed, see below. Should I follow up with them or just buy one myself?

 

[Steve928]

It's standard to not have the centre section of undertray. Personally, with the Jeep-derived 2.2L engine that you have I would leave it that way; the DPF is mounted across the front of the engine with the exhaust then passing through a channel between sump and bellhousing, as pictured. That section of exhaust will reach >600C so I'd keep plastic well out of the way and leave lots of nice cooling airflow.

 

[rjp]

It's standard to not have the centre section of undertray. Personally, with the Jeep-derived 2.2L engine that you have I would leave it that way; the DPF is mounted across the front of the engine with the exhaust then passing through a channel between sump and bellhousing, as pictured. That section of exhaust will reach >600C so I'd keep plastic well out of the way and leave lots of nice cooling airflow.

Thanks for your wise words. That does make sense, I just wondered about all the wiring you can see there and what about about salt in winter? And why can you buy these under engine plates if they can be melted?