General more power for a pandora

[Badget]

The engineering aspects don't phase me and i'm having to replace the rear arches and wheel wells anyway.
My concern would be getting one through an Sva test (or whatever they're calling them these days)

You'll absolutely loose the MOT exemption and probably the tax as well not to mention completely killing the character of the van.

 

[Badget]

I've heard of the 850 box taking 200hp in race applications so if you're prepared to chop out the bulkhead and have a little sticking out the rear the honda d series goes all the way to to a 1700cc vtec, up to 200hp

I suspect thats likely to kill more than the character of the van though.

 

[Gary50]

The engineering aspects don't phase me and i'm having to replace the rear arches and wheel wells anyway.
My concern would be getting one through an Sva test (or whatever they're calling them these days)

You'll absolutely loose the MOT exemption and probably the tax as well not to mention completely killing the character of the van.

So true.

One alternative that the Smartcar brigade seem to do quite a bit is to use a motorbike engine swap. The units tend to be small and punchy and if the 850/900 transaxle can take 90+ bhp it could be a viable option.

 

[Badget]

I have looked into bmws and honda bike engines.
The issues are the combined engine gearbox drives and, as ever cooling.
Most bike engines are designed to be flapping in the breeze for cooling.
They also make their peak power at different rpm to car engines.

I used to do a lot with kit cars and they always used to say that a bike engined car is about as driveable on the road as a car engined bike.

 

[varesecrazy]

IF a FIRE motor fits.. But had a dissy poking out,
anybody looked it the 2 Cylinder Twinairs?

 

[Badget]

Twin air would seem perfect.
However they have just as much sticking out over the gearbox as the fire.

I've heard bad stories of reliability and despite its award winning start in life fiat were pretty quick to drop it after a fairly short life span.

And it would require a vw gearbox.

 

[Badget]

Most modern engine layout s are pretty wide due to the traverse layout.
They have the space in that direction and they use it.

 

[Classicandy45]

The renault 4/5 has a transaxle that protrudes from the front of the engine(towards front grill), so whole engine and box could be swung around 180 degrees to slot into 900e as normal

 

[Badget]

I never knew the renaults were mounted that way.

The layout is right for a 900 but it looks like the water pump sits over the bell housing, so even these would need bulkhead modifications and a change of transmission.
Changing the transaxle is doable but the custom drive shafts will be pricey.
Not to mention you still have a rare engine with similar power output.

The toyota iq has a traverse layout but the driveshafts are in front of the engine, so in theory it would sit in the engine bay but would require some fairly serious driveshafts as the 900 rear arms massively restrict what will fit in there.
It's also notorious for having a complex electrical system.

 

[Classicandy45]

Yes I agree, the renault engine is just as scarce and prob not worth the effort for probably minimal gain. Mine is a camper, so the interior is not sacrificial otherwise I would be going mid mounted, but I want a classic van, not a 1/4 mile monster.

 

[Badget]

A slight update on this.

The honda d series will not fit onto the fiat box as the flywheel is too big.
Much too big.

I have had another thought, they do come and go on occasion.

Some 126 owners have been known to fit a fire engine to the 126 transaxle however they are know to have a short life span in that guise.
I wonder if it might be possible to take a 903cc 100 series from a cinquecento or seicento (or late square panda) and mount it to a 126 box.
That gives 39hp as standard but does come with electronic ignition and fuel injection.
Fitted with a sport coupe exhaust and an upgrade to the ecu and you'll have nearer 45hp which the 126 box should take ok.

I'd take reliable 45hp all day long.

 

[bugsymike]

Suzuki Whizkid engine/transaxle? Mind you not that fast.

 

[Badget]

It's a good engine and used across the suzuki range so there's plenty of them about, the traverse layout would mean the same issues as the toyota IQ (substantial bulkhead mods and custom driveshafts) and the gearboxes are very rare.

 

[bugsymike]

It's a good engine and used across the suzuki range so there's plenty of them about, the traverse layout would mean the same issues as the toyota IQ (substantial bulkhead mods and custom driveshafts) and the gearboxes are very rare.

I suppose any conversion can be done, it is just the laws of diminishing returns.
It was so much easier in the old days, as an apprentice a 1500cc was a straight swap into a 997cc Ford Anglia, do it in your lunch break.
All it needed was the clutch spigot bush swapping in the flywheel and the throttle link bending up a bit to compensate for the extra 5/8ths inch taller engine. There was one with a Lotus Twin cam engine that sounded great when he pulled away off the forecourt, 90mph by the brow of the hill, allegedly.

 

[Badget]

Plenty is possible, it really depends on
A, the level of engineering you're prepared to get involved with
And
B, how much of the original van you want to keep.

The rear engined and counter clock really kill the majority of options.

And as i've discovered recently the comparatively microscopic engine bay.

My conclusions are that unless you want to radically alter the van then the best option is a coupe/spider motor and the compromise is to slightly warm up whats already there.

 

[bugsymike]

Yes the direction of rotation is a problem also if trying to use the same transaxle.
Though wasn't there some versions with the engine used from front wheel drive models so presumably had to have a suitable diff arrangement, though I may be wrong.
Still a lot of work either way.
It was much easier in the past with front engine rear wheel drive designs.

 

[Badget]

Other 100 series variants are clockwise.
It's unbelievable how much effort fiat went to in order to make our lives difficult.

Even the suzuki and daihatsu vans were that way round.

 

[bugsymike]

Other 100 series variants are clockwise.
It's unbelievable how much effort fiat went to in order to make our lives difficult.

Even the suzuki and daihatsu vans were that way round.

As an apprentice in the late 1960s, I used to say "I wish Alec Issigonis the Mini designer would try fitting a water pump or by pass hose on one of his cars" Having said that modern cars are much more involved.