Technical Fiat ducato 2.8i jtd not starting after winter

[Yorkysteve]

Hi I have a 2001 fiat ducato 2.8i jtd motorhome 2001 tried to start it after winter but engine turned over but not firing. I changed fuel filter but no fuel coming out of pipe. I checked the tank float pipes and no fuel coming from there when engine turns over and cannot locate fuel pump. It worked perfectly before winter but was left with a full tank of deisel over winter any ideas anyone. Thank you

 

[bugsymike]

As @Communicator says "If all these fail, then perhaps it is time to consider removing the immobiliser from the pump. This has security implications, and you may wish to inform your insurance company."
Perhaps as a last resort to get running.
It may be possible if that works to then speak to your insurance company about a suitable alternative security option.
I did remove the immobiliser on an engine from a1998 2.8itid Fiat Ducato engine , but as it was going in a boat the insurance aspect wasn't an issue, reliability when many miles out to sea was, as walking home not an option!

 

[Yorkysteve]

Thank you for that certainly a lot for me to try I tried a different key but still on. Is the code reciever a box or something else not sure what it looks like. Might contact fiat to try get code but it is 23 years old so won't hold my breath and I cannot find the pump on the engine to remove immobiliser. I'm used to doing bits on proper cars from the old days with just an engine, carburetor, spark plugs etc now they made things complicated. Thank you again will try them tomorrow

 

[bugsymike]

Thank you for that certainly a lot for me to try I tried a different key but still on. Is the code reciever a box or something else not sure what it looks like. Might contact fiat to try get code but it is 23 years old so won't hold my breath and I cannot find the pump on the engine to remove immobiliser. I'm used to doing bits on proper cars from the old days with just an engine, carburetor, spark plugs etc now they made things complicated. Thank you again will try them tomorrow

In your first of the five photos, roughly to the right of your red dipstick and underneath the large turbo hose is the injector pump with the four metal injector pipes that go under the black plastic cam cover, if you find that just forward of the pipes on the pump will be a metal cover with security bolts and the immobiliser is under that.
On the photo I posted of an old Sofim engine it is in the position I described but on this engine there is no immobilser just the fuel shut off solenoid if you follow the red wire with the bared end it leads to it.
Basically under the security cover is a circuit board and a wire leading to the fuel cut off solenoid, generally once that solenoid is activated fuel is allowed into the high pressure pump and engine should start.
Your problem is getting to it.
Even with the correct code it may not start if that circuit board is faulty. So bypassing may be an answer to getting it running again.
There are several other posts on this subject as you are not the first.

 

[Yorkysteve]

Thank you for that I will try and do it

 

[Communicator]

In your first of the five photos, roughly to the right of your red dipstick and underneath the large turbo hose is the injector pump with the four metal injector pipes that go under the black plastic cam cover, if you find that just forward of the pipes on the pump will be a metal cover with security bolts and the immobiliser is under that.
On the photo I posted of an old Sofim engine it is in the position I described but on this engine there is no immobilser just the fuel shut off solenoid if you follow the red wire with the bared end it leads to it.
Basically under the security cover is a circuit board and a wire leading to the fuel cut off solenoid, generally once that solenoid is activated fuel is allowed into the high pressure pump and engine should start.
Your problem is getting to it.
Even with the correct code it may not start if that circuit board is faulty. So bypassing may be an answer to getting it running again.
There are several other posts on this subject as you are not the first.

@Yorkysteve May I suggest that you follow up on the last line of @bugsymike ' post above which I have "highlighted". A forum search should reveal several descriptions, and perhaps photos of the operation. You would probably have to carefully grind the heads off the security bolts.

 

[bugsymike]

@Yorkysteve May I suggest that you follow up on the last line of @bugsymike ' post above which I have "highlighted". A forum search should reveal several descriptions, and perhaps photos of the operation. You would probably have to carefully grind the heads off the security bolts.

The solenoid directly above the four injector pipe outlets with the red plastic covers on is what you need to be able to power up to allow fuel into the pump to start the engine, however on your model there will be the security bolts and shield blocking it, which will be a pain to remove without damaging anything else.
The second photo is one with the cover in place.
So may give an idea what you have to look for. Baring in mind this image is nice and visible unlike working in situ.

 

[Yorkysteve]

Thank you for that really helpful will let you know how I get on

 

[Yorkysteve]

Does the solenoid have 3 wires to it and do I have to remove the solenoid or can I just disconnect the wires

 

[Yorkysteve]

Or is that the immobiliser

 

[jackwhoo]

Be really really careful . Do not start on removing imobiliser unit from pump until you are 100% certain you know what you are doing

Do not do stuff to pump until you have tried cleaning the steering column connector and tried to get the code light out that way

 

[Yorkysteve]

Ok thank you don't think I will try that then I'm thinking of getting a mobile mechanic out better chance of him fixing it thank you anyway

 

[jackwhoo]

Ok thank you don't think I will try that then I'm thinking of getting a mobile mechanic out better chance of him fixing it thank you anyway

Only if they were experienced with 20 year old vehicles or they will be clueless

 

[Yorkysteve]

I tried the other black key the code light went out trued to start it but still would not start then code light came on t I disconnected the battery reconnected then code went off tried starting again and you. Used easy start engine fire a bit due to easy start but battery ran out again so charging now and will try starting it when fully charged. Remove panel under steering column looking for the key sensor but all I could see wS a yellow box about 3x2 bolteh on with 2 connectors attached 1 connector has about 4 wires and the other has abou 8 wires so mot sur if that's it

 

[Communicator]

Does the solenoid have 3 wires to it and do I have to remove the solenoid or can I just disconnect the wires

Hi Steve,
I assume that none of the alternatives worked? From memory, the immobiliser which is under a security shield, has three wires to it, one of which will be ignition switched 12V +ve. This wire needs to be directly connected to "stop" solenoid, which requires to be energised at 12V to allow fuel to be injected. There are some pictures on earlier threads but you will need to use the search function to hunt them down.

 

[Communicator]

Hi Steve,

I have just located the following in my bookmarks. See post #29 for pictures. I think that this is the definative thread.https://www.fiatforum.com/threads/immobiliser-problem-on-ducato-motorhome.294728/page-2

 

[jackwhoo]

I tried the other black key the code light went out trued to start it but still would not start then code light came on t I disconnected the battery reconnected then code went off tried starting again and you. Used easy start engine fire a bit due to easy start but battery ran out again so charging now and will try starting it when fully charged. Remove panel under steering column looking for the key sensor but all I could see wS a yellow box about 3x2 bolteh on with 2 connectors attached 1 connector has about 4 wires and the other has abou 8 wires so mot sur if that's it

If the code light goes out then next step is to get fuel through the filter and pipes to the pump.

Is the battery old and struggling?

 

[Yorkysteve]

Battery not too old turns engine for a good amount of time before dying

 

[jackwhoo]

Primer bulb may help, you may need 2 section rubber hose to connect fuel lines to primer bulb

 

[Communicator]

I tried the other black key the code light went out trued to start it but still would not start then code light came on t I disconnected the battery reconnected then code went off tried starting again and you. Used easy start engine fire a bit due to easy start but battery ran out again so charging now and will try starting it when fully charged. Remove panel under steering column looking for the key sensor but all I could see wS a yellow box about 3x2 bolteh on with 2 connectors attached 1 connector has about 4 wires and the other has abou 8 wires so mot sur if that's it

Steve,
The yellow box will be the code reseiver. On my x244, the aeriel connector is 3 way, with only two used. The other connector is 8 way, with 5 used.

 

[Communicator]

@Yorkysteve​

You have a PM.