Technical Determine Ducato engine size

[Esben]

I recently bought a new Fiat Ducato-based Pilote motorhome, and I would like to verify that I got the engine size that I paid for. However, the data on the metal plate under the bonnet seems to be inconsistent:

MOTORE 46348913
VERSIONE 250GVBAU ABCS1

The engine type code 46348913 seems to indicate either a 160 HP or 180 HP engine. But the 'V' in the version 250GVBAU seems to incidate 140 HP (the 'V'). Both according to the Fiat Ducato Owner Handbook here:

https://aftersales.fiat.com/eLumData/EN/77/290_DUCATOMCA/77_290_DUCATOMCA_603.85.375_EN_02_04.21_L_LG/77_290_DUCATOMCA_603.85.375_EN_02_04.21_L_LG.pdf

Can anybody help?

 

[the green vanper]

Hello,

strange, the owner's manual seems to be from the x290 model (newer), but the data from under the bonnet says x250

FIAT...

What is the beginning of your VIN? 6 characters?

Is the VIN recognised by the forum ePER (link on the bottom of the forum banner)? If so, you should be able to decode it and have the full information on the engine, transmission and the options.

Strange, as the engine is a new FIAT engine (and not the Iveco one offered before the 2021 facelifting), so it was not available before, in the x250 models.

 

[Esben]

The VIN starts with ZFA250000.

It's not recognized by the forum ePER ("No vehicle was found matching the VIN.").

It is recognized by the Fiat eLUM site, but the info shown there looks weird to me (see the attached file):

- The image shown isn't the motorhome model.

- The model is specified as: "DUCATO FIAT CABINATO 17 Q. PL H1 180 E6E". I'm not sure how to decode that. But I guess 180 suggests 180 HP?

- The external color ("COLORE ESTERNO") is specified as "BEIGE CERAMIQUE(2-", but mine is white.

- The body work type ("TIPO CARROZZERIA") is specified as "CABINATO". I'm not sure if that's the right one for a motorhome model.

So, this doesn't exactly reduce my confusion

 

[Communicator]

The VIN starts with ZFA250000.

It's not recognized by the forum ePER ("No vehicle was found matching the VIN.").

It is recognized by the Fiat eLUM site, but the info shown there looks weird to me (see the attached file):

- The image shown isn't the motorhome model.

- The model is specified as: "DUCATO FIAT CABINATO 17 Q. PL H1 180 E6E". I'm not sure how to decode that. But I guess 180 suggests 180 HP?

- The external color ("COLORE ESTERNO") is specified as "BEIGE CERAMIQUE(2-", but mine is white.

- The body work type ("TIPO CARROZZERIA") is specified as "CABINATO". I'm not sure if that's the right one for a motorhome model.

So, this doesn't exactly reduce my confusion

When an Alko or similar chassis is used for the MH conversion, the front end may be supplied as a cab only. (I remember seeing a photo showing two cabs bolted back to back on a converters premises.) Cabinato translates to Cabin Cruiser, but perhaps would also indicate "cab". With cab only supplied for conversion, would it not seem possible for it to be supplied without the finishing paint coat?-
The 17 Q indicates 17 Quintals or 1700kg. The 180 reffering to 180hp seems plausible.

 

[Esben]

When an Alko or similar chassis is used for the MH conversion, the front end may be supplied as a cab only. (I remember seeing a photo showing two cabs bolted back to back on a converters premises.) Cabinato translates to Cabin Cruiser, but perhaps would also indicate "cab". With cab only supplied for conversion, would it not seem possible for it to be supplied without the finishing paint coat?-
The 17 Q indicates 17 Quintals or 1700kg. The 180 reffering to 180hp seems plausible.

I would expect the chassis to be something like this, and to be delivered fully painted from Fiat.

 

[HughJampton]

I can't fully account for the possible confusion, but it would be useful to know which particular Pilote Motorhome you have.

I would think the underbonnet plate will be correct (presumably giving you the 180 engine you think you should have), and the other information you are trying to decode is misleading you (with the help of the manual ).

Whilst it is inconclusive, in earlier years the "U" designation for the wheelbase denoted a "cab only" version to which an AlKo chassis would be attached as noted in a post above. My own (earlier) 'van has "U", and an aftermarket AlKo chassis. If yours is the same, (hence the question on which Pilote) then patently the eLum listing is wrong.

If you're really lucky, you may be able to find a paper sticker on the engine with engine type/number - if there, it's usually legible for some time after new. I usually try to carefully detach mine and keep it.

 

[Esben]

I can't fully account for the possible confusion, but it would be useful to know which particular Pilote Motorhome you have.

I would think the underbonnet plate will be correct (presumably giving you the 180 engine you think you should have), and the other information you are trying to decode is misleading you (with the help of the manual ).

Whilst it is inconclusive, in earlier years the "U" designation for the wheelbase denoted a "cab only" version to which an AlKo chassis would be attached as noted in a post above. My own (earlier) 'van has "U", and an aftermarket AlKo chassis. If yours is the same, (hence the question on which Pilote) then patently the eLum listing is wrong.

If you're really lucky, you may be able to find a paper sticker on the engine with engine type/number - if there, it's usually legible for some time after new. I usually try to carefully detach mine and keep it.

It's a new P696U.

I'm not sure I understand what you mean. How would I determine the engine size from the under bonnet plate without decoding it from the numbers I mention?

I'll try to look for the paper sticker the next time I'm at the vehicle.

I have to say that I'm completely flabbergasted that the engine size isn't explicitly stated anywhere on the vehicle, given how expensive an option it is.

 

[HughJampton]

The P696U appears to be based on the Fiat low-line camping car chassis, not the AlKo.

Yes, the "motore" could map to either the 160 or the 180 (I still think some of the eLum details are wrong/misleading).

The only other suggestion I can make is to check the CoC (Certificate of conformity) you should have been given (probably two, one Fiat, and one Pilote), which is specific to the VIN.

Both the FIAT, and my converter's CoC show the maximum engine power (in kW).

 

[Esben]

What is the designation of the MOTORE on the Fiat VIN plate? For example mine is F1AGL411C which is 2.3 litre Multijet 2 Engine with 150 BHP manufactured between 2015 and 2019

Here's the plate.

PS: I'm new to VINs, so not sure if you should hide the full VIN number?

 

[rayc]

Here's the plate.

PS: I'm new to VINs, so not sure if you should hide the full VIN number?

I deleted my post as it didn't add anything to the debate. My guess for what it is worth is that the same mechanical engine is fitted for both 160 and 180 and that the difference in power rating is controlled by exterior methods. What does the Fiat CofC say?

 

[Esben]

I deleted my post as it didn't add anything to the debate. My guess for what it is worth is that the same mechanical engine is fitted for both 160 and 180 and that the difference in power rating is controlled by exterior methods. What does the Fiat CofC say?

I haven't received a CofC

 

[AndyRKett]

When an Alko or similar chassis is used for the MH conversion, the front end may be supplied as a cab only. (I remember seeing a photo showing two cabs bolted back to back on a converters premises.)

Like this,


I seem to think these were use for the really heavy duty conversions where the converter would be adding Potentially multiple axels and a lot of weight, therefore it was left to the converter to deal with. Also used for things like beaver tail Car transporters and ?razor back (not sure if that’s the right word) vans.

The camper ones (first picture) have a plastic cover over the back of the cab and roof that keeps it water tight till it’s converted, the ones that become trucks or vans,(second pic) don’t have that plastic panel.

 

[the green vanper]

Hello,

There are several types of 'chassis', or I'd rather say 'bodies' delivered to the builders.

Cabinato is one of them, so was also mine. It has a cab with no rear wall (roof is another option, mine had a H1 roof), it's covered with some kind of plastic protection same as the ones on the photos posted by AndyRKett (I've saw once it was called Aquilux, it has a structure of a cardboard, but is in plastic). But it also has a chassis + rear axis. As on the photo posted by Esban in his third post.

I've also seen chassis + engine + partial cab interior, but no body at all That looks strange (steering wheel but no seat )

Most of the deliveries to the builders I've seen online were white. But I'm not 100% sure that the grey / blue campers/motorhomes were resprayed by the builders. Perhaps some 10+ years ago all were white, then the builders started to change the orders, as the customers were fed up by the white... And still, most of the commercial vans remain white.

17Q doesn't mean 1700 kg. It means 3500 kgs.

Mine is also 17Q:

CAPACITY PORTATA COMM. QLI = 35 QLI P.T.T (QLI17)

I was using this site to decode the VIN:

FIAT ePER :: The FIAT Spare Parts Catalog

Spar parts catalog :: Allowing you to browse all the components of your vehicle online, without needing to make a trip to your local dealer shop.

www.pekidi.com

And it was quite close (or the closest one) to what I was said by the FIAT Pro dealer. The forum ePER is further away (as it says for example 2 seats, and I know that both primary and secondary homologations of my van were made for 3 seats).

@Esban call the Stellantis hotline, they should be able to provide you the CoC, or the homologation extract.

 

[Communicator]

Hello,

There are several types of 'chassis', or I'd rather say 'bodies' delivered to the builders.

Cabinato is one of them, so was also mine. It has a cab with no rear wall (roof is another option, mine had a H1 roof), it's covered with some kind of plastic protection same as the ones on the photos posted by AndyRKett (I've saw once it was called Aquilux, it has a structure of a cardboard, but is in plastic). But it also has a chassis + rear axis. As on the photo posted by Esban in his third post.

I've also seen chassis + engine + partial cab interior, but no body at all That looks strange (steering wheel but no seat )

Most of the deliveries to the builders I've seen online were white. But I'm not 100% sure that the grey / blue campers/motorhomes were resprayed by the builders. Perhaps some 10+ years ago all were white, then the builders started to change the orders, as the customers were fed up by the white... And still, most of the commercial vans remain white.

17Q doesn't mean 1700 kg. It means 3500 kgs.

Mine is also 17Q:

CAPACITY PORTATA COMM. QLI = 35 QLI P.T.T (QLI17)

I was using this site to decode the VIN:

FIAT ePER :: The FIAT Spare Parts Catalog

Spar parts catalog :: Allowing you to browse all the components of your vehicle online, without needing to make a trip to your local dealer shop.

www.pekidi.com

And it was quite close (or the closest one) to what I was said by the FIAT Pro dealer. The forum ePER is further away (as it says for example 2 seats, and I know that both primary and secondary homologations of my van were made for 3 seats).

@Esban call the Stellantis hotline, they should be able to provide you the CoC, or the homologation extract.

I beg to differ. Several results from an internet search give: 1 Quintal = 100 kg.

 

[AndyRKett]

I am sure I worked it out a long time ago that the 17Q relates to the wheel base, that being the longer model, then there is the 12Q and the 15Q which could still carry 3.5t but are shorter wheel bases

 

[Communicator]

Apologies as this is getting a bit off topic.

Sorry Andy,
I cannot accept your hypothesis above.
Ducatos cannot carry 3500kg, which is the GVM for the Maxi version. My LWB x244 has a plated GVM of only 3300kg.
The Quintal number may relate to load capacity but I cannot make it fit. I think that mine is a 15Q version, but payload including driver is given as 1330kg. (Source is printout taken in 2005, from Fiat lcv website.)

 

[HughJampton]

I don't think the "Q" ratings translate literally to payload, but I'm pretty sure they relate to the (original) design weight. (e.g 11Q for the 2800/3000kg, 15Q for the 3300kg 17Q for the 3500/3650kg version, and 20Q for the maxi 4005kg version - though the alignment to each particular weight is my guess).

Certainly the various sets of running gear bought as spares (brakes, shockers, etc.) align with the the greater the "Q" rating, the more heavy duty the spare.

 

[Esben]

Hello,

There are several types of 'chassis', or I'd rather say 'bodies' delivered to the builders.

Cabinato is one of them, so was also mine. It has a cab with no rear wall (roof is another option, mine had a H1 roof), it's covered with some kind of plastic protection same as the ones on the photos posted by AndyRKett (I've saw once it was called Aquilux, it has a structure of a cardboard, but is in plastic). But it also has a chassis + rear axis. As on the photo posted by Esban in his third post.

I've also seen chassis + engine + partial cab interior, but no body at all That looks strange (steering wheel but no seat )

Most of the deliveries to the builders I've seen online were white. But I'm not 100% sure that the grey / blue campers/motorhomes were resprayed by the builders. Perhaps some 10+ years ago all were white, then the builders started to change the orders, as the customers were fed up by the white... And still, most of the commercial vans remain white.

17Q doesn't mean 1700 kg. It means 3500 kgs.

Mine is also 17Q:

CAPACITY PORTATA COMM. QLI = 35 QLI P.T.T (QLI17)

I was using this site to decode the VIN:

FIAT ePER :: The FIAT Spare Parts Catalog

Spar parts catalog :: Allowing you to browse all the components of your vehicle online, without needing to make a trip to your local dealer shop.

www.pekidi.com

And it was quite close (or the closest one) to what I was said by the FIAT Pro dealer. The forum ePER is further away (as it says for example 2 seats, and I know that both primary and secondary homologations of my van were made for 3 seats).

@Esban call the Stellantis hotline, they should be able to provide you the CoC, or the homologation extract.

The pekidi.com site doesn't recognize the VIN

I will try to call Stellantis, thanks.

 

[HughJampton]

I haven't received a CofC

Odd that, as I thought a CoC was required throughout the EU to enable registration. Certainly in the UK it is normal to receive the CoC for all stages with a new motorhome (I have three, Fiat/AlKo/Hymer).

It's not unusual for base vehicles used in motorhome conversion not to appear on ePer. My VIN can't be found on any online version.

 

[Esben]

Odd that, as I thought a CoC was required throughout the EU to enable registration. Certainly in the UK it is normal to receive the CoC for all stages with a new motorhome (I have three, Fiat/AlKo/Hymer).

It's not unusual for base vehicles used in motorhome conversion not to appear on ePer. My VIN can't be found on any online version.

I assume it's just Pilote or the dealer that isn't organized enough to include it among the documents that they hand over to the client.

But what I'm really looking for is a physical indication on the vehicle itself of the engine size. Just to rule out any mistakes. I wouldn't be surprised to find out that Pilote ordered the wrong engine size from Fiat but still registered it as having the 180 HP engine at the documentation level and in the vehicle registration certificate.

Is your VIN recognized on the Fiat eLUM site? https://aftersales.fiat.com/elum/Login.aspx