General What Engine to go for?

[TrevC]

I agree. My mixed road 23 mile commute today yielded 52mpg, and that was without using the Eco button. I was driving fairly gently as the car has done less than 300 miles, and kept to 60 on dual carriageway and 50 on country roads, but I'm well pleased. My early impression is that the Eco mode is most effective around town, rather than faster cruising.

 

[multispoke]

I drove a Twin Air today and amid all the hipe I realised that the suspension and wheels have a bearing on the 'rightness' on the choice of engine. Coming from a 1.4 08 (it is now kinda sold) with new Fiat shocks under warranty my own car squats on the same run. Did a back to back with my car afterwards to see if it was me ! I found the setup on the Twin air a little roly poly. I was surprised at the urge from 2000 but by 4500 it was kinda gone. I did rev it once to 5500 & I know the engine is newish (500miles) but there was nothing up in the rev band. I would also say that I felt that the engine 'was breaking wind' as opposed to having a burble. The model that the garage had was nice and the perfect spec for a Twin air (lounge and voltare blue white ambiance with 15 multispokes )and I was getting an excellent 'irish' price on the car given that it was a demo. Afterwards I found myself chasing that Abarth that is unfortunately is now out of my price range. On balance if I was on a strict budget and was sensible it would be hard to beat a basic 1.2 pop and put 16 multispokes on it so that you cann't see that its missing the rear discs but then you would have to order the chrome kit so that you cann't see the weedy exhaust and then maybe a ITG CAI for that elusive 76bhp.

 

[306maxi]

I drove a Twin Air today and amid all the hipe I realised that the suspension and wheels have a bearing on the 'rightness' on the choice of engine. Coming from a 1.4 08 (it is now kinda sold) with new Fiat shocks under warranty my own car squats on the same run. Did a back to back with my car afterwards to see if it was me ! I found the setup on the Twin air a little roly poly. I was surprised at the urge from 2000 but by 4500 it was kinda gone. I did rev it once to 5500 & I know the engine is newish (500miles) but there was nothing up in the rev band. I would also say that I felt that the engine 'was breaking wind' as opposed to having a burble. The model that the garage had was nice and the perfect spec for a Twin air (lounge and voltare blue white ambiance with 15 multispokes )and I was getting an excellent 'irish' price on the car given that it was a demo. Afterwards I found myself chasing that Abarth that is unfortunately is now out of my price range. On balance if I was on a strict budget and was sensible it would be hard to beat a basic 1.2 pop and put 16 multispokes on it so that you cann't see that its missing the rear discs but then you would have to order the chrome kit so that you cann't see the weedy exhaust and then maybe a ITG CAI for that elusive 76bhp.

The 1.4's all have a sportier suspension than the twinair's, multijets and 1.2's.

 

[multispoke]

The 1.4's all have a sportier suspension than the twinair's, multijets and 1.2's.

I am amazed that a sports suspension is not an option for the Twin Air. Or maybe it will be - when the 105bhp model is launched...

 

[306maxi]

I am amazed that a sports suspension is not an option for the Twin Air. Or maybe it will be - when the 105bhp model is launched...

It's not an option on any of the 500's other than the Abarth where you can get the Koni upgrade, it's part of the 1.4 spec

 

[Murano16v]

So the OP has gone for a Fiat Group engine, but it's in a MiTo.

 

[cjc156]

have just read what cars online review of the twin air based on comments here.

'takes an age to build up speed unless you thrash it'

erm- what engine were they testing exactly?

overall- 'noisy and slow'

misinformation much?

I read the article in Whatcar today, it seemd to me it was a shabby piece of lazy journalism. The car was poorly represented and unless I missed it, no mention of the fact the car appeared to be in Eco mode for the whole test. However I would suspect they were unaware that such a button existed. Poor, very poor.

 

[chris_p]

When economy is paramount I find the TwinAir's Eco Mode acceptable in all driving though it does take the edge off performance and it's a pity that it is permanently combined with lighter steering. When you turn it off the TwinAir is remarkably lively and much more fun than the 1.2. The 'What Car' article on economy cars, published this month, has a description of the TwinAir engine which I find unrecognisable. You wonder if something was amiss with their sample. Mine is noticeably quicker and has more low-down torque than my previous 1.2. At the same time it is, on average, around 10 mpg more economical when driven with care. The sound track is unusual yet likeable and not intrusive at motorway speeds. It is reminiscent of the earlier air-cooled twin but much more refined. The price difference over the 1.2 is unjustified but I think it is money well spent. Sportier and more economic versions of the TwinAir are on the way but the current engine may yet prove to combine the best of both worlds.

 

[TwinAir Newbie]

I agree with your comments chris, especially the one about lighter steering coming on with the Eco mode.

It's not like the steering is heavy in the first place!

 

[chris_p]

I agree with your comments chris, especially the one about lighter steering coming on with the Eco mode.

It's not like the steering is heavy in the first place!

It appears that Fiat have simply renamed the 'City' button from previous models and added the Eco feature which, I believe, reduces torque by 45 Nm and softens the throttle response. In automatics it will also hasten upshifts.
Clearly Fiat thinks that this is an urban driving feature but that is a bit short sighted.

 

[popkid]

My First Post: Hi!

I'm a Panda Owner (05 plate, 1.2 Dynamic, 62k on clock, best car I've ever owned!) and my local dealer cold called me last week to see if I was interested in trading in for a new car, I'm tempted, the Panda just went through its 4th MOT in a row last week without needing any work and I figure somethings got to give sooner or later! I was thinking about nothing but replacing with a new or nearly new Panda originally...

But, while on the website configurator for Pandas.. I got sucked in by the great PCP deals on the 500... nothing comparable on the Panda, Now as well as looking at Pandas I'm test driving 1.2/Twinair this w/e!

I'm a mechanical engineer and I'm very tempted by the tech of the TwinAir, obviously the price is £1200 more, but on PCP it makes less difference as GMFV is also higher and interest rate lower (it amounts to less than £20 a month over 3 years on the spec I'd configured) but I have some concerns, reading on here and elsewhere there have been some horror stories on the MPG people are getting, I get 50-55 out of the Panda against a quoted 57? I hoped I'd get maybe 60 or better out of a TA but perhaps not!?

I'm not too scared of being an early adopter on the TA engine, with it being under warranty for whole 3 yrs of the PCP and then I hand it back anyway...

Any idea on relative insurance costs TwinAir vs 1.2?

Any advice gratefully received... I'll let you know how I get on on Saturday, I could be staying with my faithful 05, going for new/pre-reg Panda, or ordering a 500

pK

 

[pearce_jj]

re insurance, go on to directline.com and get a quote for both, it will take about 5 mins tops

 

[jrkitching]

My First Post: Hi!

I'm a Panda Owner (05 plate, 1.2 Dynamic, 62k on clock, best car I've ever owned!) and my local dealer cold called me last week to see if I was interested in trading in for a new car, I'm tempted, the Panda just went through its 4th MOT in a row last week without needing any work and I figure somethings got to give sooner or later! I was thinking about nothing but replacing with a new or nearly new Panda originally...

But, while on the website configurator for Pandas.. I got sucked in by the great PCP deals on the 500... nothing comparable on the Panda, Now as well as looking at Pandas I'm test driving 1.2/Twinair this w/e!

I'm a mechanical engineer and I'm very tempted by the tech of the TwinAir, obviously the price is £1200 more, but on PCP it makes less difference as GMFV is also higher and interest rate lower (it amounts to less than £20 a month over 3 years on the spec I'd configured) but I have some concerns, reading on here and elsewhere there have been some horror stories on the MPG people are getting, I get 50-55 out of the Panda against a quoted 57? I hoped I'd get maybe 60 or better out of a TA but perhaps not!?

I'm not too scared of being an early adopter on the TA engine, with it being under warranty for whole 3 yrs of the PCP and then I hand it back anyway...

Any idea on relative insurance costs TwinAir vs 1.2?

Any advice gratefully received... I'll let you know how I get on on Saturday, I could be staying with my faithful 05, going for new/pre-reg Panda, or ordering a 500

pK

Popkid

Firstly, welcome to the forum. Good to have you here.

I've looked at your post several times & reading between the lines I'll offer this advice. Phone up the dealer & cancel that test drive. Now. Don't even think about it. Just do it. You'll thank me later, I promise.

I realise I'll now have to justify that statement, so this may be a long post.

Economy is clearly important to you. I've got a 1.2 Panda & a 1.2 500. Underneath the skin, they're the same car. I get much the same economy out of both as you do out of your Panda. I also know that to get that economy you have to drive them in a certain way. The 1.2 engine is ideally suited to being driven in that way. A twin cylinder turbocharged engine is designed for a different driving style & the turbocharger is going to be completely redundant if you want to achieve 60+mpg regularly.

There are some 'interesting' finance deals available on the 500 because they're subsidised by the manufacturer. It's FIAT's way of discounting an overpriced car without losing margin on cash sales; it also helps minimise the effect discounting would otherwise have on residuals. The Panda comes with a much more attractive scheme - buy a new one from stock & get over £2000 off. Here, for example:

http://www.perrys.co.uk/fiat-panda-1.2-%5B69%5D-active-5-door/new-and-delivery-mileage/offer-184251

Sell your Panda privately & you could get £2500 for it. A comparable new car for a changeover price of £3500 - that's like your car as deposit & £100 a month for 3 years & then you own the car outright - no Twinair deal will come anywhere near that. You'll spend much more each month & you'll be left with nothing at the end.

The technology is new and interesting. Reliability is unknown. The 3 yr warranty may protect you for the PCP period but if it does go wrong (and I'm not saying it will) then YOU will still have to deal with all the inconvenience of an unreliable car.

Insurance will be more expensive for the Twinair - it's 7 groups higher than the 1.2 & 9 groups higher than your Panda. Get comparative quotes & find out how much extra that will cost you.

I'm not saying the twinAir isn't a good car - lots of people here love it & I think it's a brilliant technical innovation for which FIAT should be praised loudly. It's a great choice for many - I just don't think it's the right car for you.

So why am I being so forceful & telling you to cancel that test drive? The real risk is that you might like it - and your wallet isn't going to.

 

[306maxi]

Far better to go to moneysupermarket or confused or whatever \

 

[jrkitching]

Far better to go to moneysupermarket or confused or whatever \

If you're talking about insurance, it depends on your age. Direct Line are very competitive for older drivers & beat both those websites for me.

When it comes to getting comparative quotes on a car you haven't bought yet, the advantage of going to DL is that you don't subsequently get bombarded with junk email & unwanted phone calls - unlike the other 2 sites you mentioned.

 

[pearce_jj]

Re the Panda deals, there is also a 1.2 MyLife special (a/c, alloys, blue&me iirc) for £7k at the mo - seems pretty unbeatable especially looking at the residuals!

 

[mjsmke]

Far better to go to moneysupermarket or confused or whatever \

I like them both but its then cheaper to go the the insurance dealer directly. Confused quoted me £470 from elephant.co.uk, then i went to elephant.co.uk and it was £40 cheaper so bought it there.

 

[multispoke]

Popkid

Phone up the dealer & cancel that test drive. Now. Don't even think about it. Just do it. You'll thank me later, I promise.

Very good post jrkitching.

A mechanical engineer wouldn't cancel that Twin air drive. My experience is if you tell someone to do something - they don't want to do it and if you ask them not to do it - they will ! This would be a good one to take bets on !

Re the warranty - could he extend the warranty for another year or 2 to give him peace of mind on the Twin Air ? And can this be done in Year 3 ?

 

[popkid]

Thanks so much for the warm welcome and considered responses

I'm with directline currently for the Panda (£250/yr), got quotes for 500 lounge just now, 1.2 comes out at £310, TwinAir £360, so not a massive difference, albeit enough to write off the whole VED saving

jrkitching: you read between the lines pretty well! I almost universally drive the Panda ("Sue") like a saint, not to the point of obsession but I don't like seeing the trip avg go below 50.... (ok may be that is a little obsessive!) and you are right, sounds like temptation to use the extra urge of the TA could be too much and get you into the 30's MPG range easily! I would imagine the 1.2 would drive much like the Panda, i.e. even if you thrash it, its not quick, so you may as well drive efficiently instead. I'd still be really interested to see what the TA would deliver driven like a saint though! I have a 2nd car for thrashing that only delivers around 24mpg at the very best that I take out on weekends only, I get it out of my system then and not on my commute. I'm also somewhat open to the idea of enjoying the TA sometimes rather than being 100% economy obsessive

Point taken about the cost too, I know in effect I could have a Panda for half the price but I've never driven or even sat in a 500 so I'll take the risk and won't take your advice to cancel the test drive, cost isn't everything for me, I need to see whether I think the premium for a 500's style (and fewer doors and worse practicality!) is worth it, of course rationally everyone should drive a Panda if it was just a value for money issue! I've evangelised this myself fruitlessly to many frends who've bought KA's 107s and the like!

pearce_jj: I saw the mylife panda at 7k too, pretty good deal, no fiat finance on that car though?, so I'd be on bank rates of around 10%, still much cheaper overall than a 500 obviously, but I do kind of fancy a change afaik no Pandas have blueandme?

I'll see what the dealer can offer on both Panda/500s and go from there

pK

 

[popkid]

Very good post jrkitching.

A mechanical engineer wouldn't cancel that Twin air drive. My experience is if you tell someone to do something - they don't want to do it and if you ask them not to do it - they will ! This would be a good one to take bets on !

Re the warranty - could he extend the warranty for another year or 2 to give him peace of mind on the Twin Air ? And can this be done in Year 3 ?

Too true no fear of me not driving it! Sorry if I've spoiled you taking bets!