Technical Uneven tyre wear

[justlovethat500]

I have had an 07 reg. Panda Dynamic for the last 6 years and it's served me well. At its 1st MoT with me, the advisory was excess wear on the inner edges of both front tyres. I'd had the same warning on my Cinquecento sport and (Though I don't understand how or why) rectified it by renewing the ant-roll bar rubber mountings. When I got the same warning on the Panda I tried the same thing. It reduced the times between warnings to 2 years but I hate junking tyres with large amounts of good tread left. I've had the tracking done with new tyres so there's no anomalies there but the wear keeps repeating. There's no record of the car having had a bump; in fact it was a little old lady's shopping trolley doing about 1500 miles a year. Please, can anyone offer a real cure?

 

[348azeus]

You don’t mention mileage or type of driving. If it’s just around ton then that could be why. Get 4 wheel alignment done and think about rotating tyres. I swap mine from font to rear after they have done around 10,000 miles. Also the make of tyres can influence this.

 

[The Panda Nut]

After changing the entire front end ours stopped wearing the tyres for a while. Getting tracking exactly right is also critical. So suspension arms, top mounts bump stops and quality struts plus springs. C. £270 at my last look. Also check track rods and ends. It seems to be a design weakness to me. rear track is not adjustable per se. Axles can move a fraction to gain a little change.

 

[rmjbn1]

Hi and welcome

Well, I'm in the same boat with my 2004 1.2 dynamic on 155/80 R13s, mostly on country lanes.

Seems 169 Pandas can be heavy on tyre wear, quite a lot of comments in the Mk3 Panda section.

There's different type of wear, could be too much negative camber, or too much toe out.

Can you feel any 'feathering' on the tread (sharp edges of rubber in one direction) that would indicate excessive toe out?

I also had a 4 wheel alignment, then continued to notice the front edges wearing, so wound on a couple of flats of toe in.

To further muddy the waters, rear mis-alignment can also cause heavy front wear.

I've also read some suggestions that the 155 tyres are particularly prone to shoulder wear, and that wider tyres might fare better. So swapping for some 14" rims with 165 tyres might be an idea. Just a theory though.

How old is the rest of the front suspension?

If, like mine, uprights are still original, then any adjustments might just be papering over the cracks.

If top mounts are worn, there's only so much that tracking can do. I've come to the conclusion that I probably won't be able to get mine tracking straight until the front uprights are replaced, as per Panda Nut above.

 

[AnthonyH]

I've had the tracking done with new tyres so there's no anomalies there but the wear keeps repeating.

1) Employ a specialist in tracking, 2) have him come to your home and do the job there 3) watch him do the job.

If you fail in any of the three instructions given above, then you're wasting your money.

The problem is that its in the best interests of the tyre industry to either not carry out tracking at all or botch it.

 

[justlovethat500]

Hi and welcome

Well, I'm in the same boat with my 2004 1.2 dynamic on 155/80 R13s, mostly on country lanes.

Seems 169 Pandas can be heavy on tyre wear, quite a lot of comments in the Mk3 Panda section.

There's different type of wear, could be too much negative camber, or too much toe out.

Can you feel any 'feathering' on the tread (sharp edges of rubber in one direction) that would indicate excessive toe out?

I also had a 4 wheel alignment, then continued to notice the front edges wearing, so wound on a couple of flats of toe in.

To further muddy the waters, rear mis-alignment can also cause heavy front wear.

I've also read some suggestions that the 155 tyres are particularly prone to shoulder wear, and that wider tyres might fare better. So swapping for some 14" rims with 165 tyres might be an idea. Just a theory though.

How old is the rest of the front suspension?

If, like mine, uprights are still original, then any adjustments might just be papering over the cracks.

If top mounts are worn, there's only so much that tracking can do. I've come to the conclusion that I probably won't be able to get mine tracking straight until the front uprights are replaced, as per Panda Nut above.

 

[justlovethat500]

Thank you for your information. There's no feathering, just the shoulder wearing down.
I have replaced the front struts but I had the tracking done immediately after, so I think I can rule that out.
I've done the roll bar rubbers and have to put my faith in my regular MoT examiner who says he can't detect any sl

Hi and welcome

Well, I'm in the same boat with my 2004 1.2 dynamic on 155/80 R13s, mostly on country lanes.

Seems 169 Pandas can be heavy on tyre wear, quite a lot of comments in the Mk3 Panda section.

There's different type of wear, could be too much negative camber, or too much toe out.

Can you feel any 'feathering' on the tread (sharp edges of rubber in one direction) that would indicate excessive toe out?

I also had a 4 wheel alignment, then continued to notice the front edges wearing, so wound on a couple of flats of toe in.

To further muddy the waters, rear mis-alignment can also cause heavy front wear.

I've also read some suggestions that the 155 tyres are particularly prone to shoulder wear, and that wider tyres might fare better. So swapping for some 14" rims with 165 tyres might be an idea. Just a theory though.

How old is the rest of the front suspension?

If, like mine, uprights are still original, then any adjustments might just be papering over the cracks.

If top mounts are worn, there's only so much that tracking can do. I've come to the conclusion that I probably won't be able to get mine tracking straight until the front uprights are replaced, as per Panda Nut above.

op anywhere.

 

[justlovethat500]

Thank you for your information. There's no feathering, just the shoulder wearing down.
I have replaced the front struts but I had the tracking done immediately after, so I think I can rule that out.
I've done the roll bar rubbers and have to put my faith in my regular MoT examiner who says he can't detect any slop anywhere.

 

[justlovethat500]

Sorry. I'm new to all this I hadn't finished the reply,
As far as I know, all the suspension apart from the bits I've done is original. That means 95,000miles old.
I bought the car at 55k and it's chewed up 4 sets of front tyres since then. rear wear is negligible.
Again, thank you.

 

[justlovethat500]

1) Employ a specialist in tracking, 2) have him come to your home and do the job there 3) watch him do the job.

If you fail in any of the three instructions given above, then you're wasting your money.

The problem is that its in the best interests of the tyre industry to either not carry out tracking at all or botch it.

Thanks, I'll see who's in my area.

 

[justlovethat500]

After changing the entire front end ours stopped wearing the tyres for a while. Getting tracking exactly right is also critical. So suspension arms, top mounts bump stops and quality struts plus springs. C. £270 at my last look. Also check track rods and ends. It seems to be a design weakness to me. rear track is not adjustable per se. Axles can move a fraction to gain a little change.

Yes, I'm beginning to look at it as a construction fault; made worse by potholes. With the high tech - lasers, etc. - tyre depots use, one would think they'd get the alignment right. I'll have a discussion with my regular team next time I'm in.

 

[shaun200765]

I have had an 07 reg. Panda Dynamic for the last 6 years and it's served me well. At its 1st MoT with me, the advisory was excess wear on the inner edges of both front tyres. I'd had the same warning on my Cinquecento sport and (Though I don't understand how or why) rectified it by renewing the ant-roll bar rubber mountings. When I got the same warning on the Panda I tried the same thing. It reduced the times between warnings to 2 years but I hate junking tyres with large amounts of good tread left. I've had the tracking done with new tyres so there's no anomalies there but the wear keeps repeating. There's no record of the car having had a bump; in fact it was a little old lady's shopping trolley doing about 1500 miles a year. Please, can anyone offer a real cure?

Where abouts are you mate? A couple of years ago I cobbled together my own front toe/alignment tool. It works fantastic although it takes a while to do. I'll try and find the one and only pic I have of this, you may need to zoom in a bit to see both laser dots.

Yes, I'm beginning to look at it as a construction fault; made worse by potholes. With the high tech - lasers, etc. - tyre depots use, one would think they'd get the alignment right. I'll have a discussion with my regular team next time I'm in.

 

[AnthonyH]

Where abouts are you mate? A couple of years ago I cobbled together my own front toe/alignment tool. It works fantastic although it takes a while to do. I'll try and find the one and only pic I have of this, you may need to zoom in a bit to see both laser dots.

That looks very cool, how does it work? How did you put it together?

 

[justlovethat500]

You don’t mention mileage or type of driving. If it’s just around ton then that could be why. Get 4 wheel alignment done and think about rotating tyres. I swap mine from font to rear after they have done around 10,000 miles. Also the make of tyres can influence this.

Mileage around 10k/year and the tyres don't do 20. Mostly main road work. I'll take the point on 4-wheel alignment next time I have to renew - they're an advisory right now.

 

[shaun200765]

That looks very cool, how does it work? How did you put it together?

Thank you mate I think I need to photograph it better but briefly...
Its two Chinese laser pointer pens seated in plastic trunking that came from Screwfix. "Calibrated" by sitting them both on kitchen table and aimed at common horizontal line as far away as possible.
Car must have free moving track/tie rods. Attach the lasers to both front wheels, not on the rims where they can be damaged. The plastic 90deg piece in the pic, identical one on opposite side. Large white board on axle stands shows where each laser actually points but its important to "clip" the 90deg notched piece at same time. Once the lasers clip the exact same position on each (adjust tie rod and then roll the car forwards and backwards by hand to give it chance to move the road wheel) you then have to roll the car forwards and project onto the same board (moved to the front of the car this time) and compare to where it was pointing to the rear (forgot to say, lock the steering wheel in exactly straight ahead position).
Its difficult to describe properly but hours later you end up with front wheels that are perfectly aligned with zero toe in or out.

 

[AnthonyH]

It sounds good to me. I like inventive! I will have a think and see if I can come up with something similar

 

[shaun200765]

It sounds good to me. I like inventive! I will have a think and see if I can come up with something similar

I'll did it out today and take better pics mate. What I did notice was you do have to roll the car up and down a bit before you get a reliable indication projected onto the board.

 

[rmjbn1]

Have you replaced the lower control arms / wishbones? They can wear, but that would usually show up in MOT.

And what size tyres? Standard 155/80 R13? Pictures of the tyres could help confirm what's going on.

Sounds like rear alignment is probably OK, mine was out and also scrubbing rear tyres.

If it's had recent front struts and alignment, my steps would be:
1. Get a recommendation for a good 4 wheel alignment in your area for a second opinion. Some of the tyre places may have the laser equipment but not necessarily get correct readings from it.
2. If you can do it safely add one spanner flat of toe in to each side, see if tyre wear is any different.

I need new tyres this year and I'm considering switching to 165 instead of 155.
@The Panda Nut did you ever get round to doing this? I remember we were discussing it a while back.

 

[rmjbn1]

@justlovethat500 @AnthonyH thought you might find this thread by our resident tyre man Jock interesting:

Tracking, Wheel alignment, or anything else people commonly call it.

Thought I'd post this here because although I'm going to be referring specifically to our Panda, the general principles apply to many vehicles. So what's the problem? Well, I've noticed that Becky's O/S/F - driver's side front - tyre is wearing slightly more rapidly on it's inner shoulder than...

www.fiatforum.com

 

[The Panda Nut]

Have you replaced the lower control arms / wishbones? They can wear, but that would usually show up in MOT.

And what size tyres? Standard 155/80 R13? Pictures of the tyres could help confirm what's going on.

Sounds like rear alignment is probably OK, mine was out and also scrubbing rear tyres.

If it's had recent front struts and alignment, my steps would be:
1. Get a recommendation for a good 4 wheel alignment in your area for a second opinion. Some of the tyre places may have the laser equipment but not necessarily get correct readings from it.
2. If you can do it safely add one spanner flat of toe in to each side, see if tyre wear is any different.

I need new tyres this year and I'm considering switching to 165 instead of 155.
@The Panda Nut did you ever get round to doing this? I remember we were discussing it a while back.

Daffo was on 165 65x14 as standard. Now we have 3 319'2. 17/65x15 Noop (TA4x4), 185/65x15 Ruby 1.2 Loungs and 175/64x14 Peanut (1.2 Easy) Im pretty sure you will appreciate the extra grip in most circumstances. The one on the 185s has notably more grip.