Tuning turbo rolling roaded MPI GT17 big turbo!!!!

[ycming]

Indeed impressive stuff!

I don't believe you have those seicento seats in!. I think they just sit way too high!

Hmmm see the camber bolts, which car did you order them for ? As mine never got those plates you got ...

Thanks
Ming

 

[cc1]

How much was the rear anti roll bar setup.

 

[J333EVO]

Camber bolts are a good option, we have Eibach camber bolts on our track day cinq and hope to set it up to run 2° -ve camber with parallel toe on front as this will make front end very pointy with good turn in and not wear out the tyres. We run just this pretty much on the FTO (though thats with CuscoZero2Zero coil-over suspension which has adjustable top mounts) and its the default setting on Clio 172/182's which you use camber bolts on.

Eibach bolts available from Venom Motorsport, early Clio 12mm bolts are perfect size and only £16 http://www.venommotorsport.com/product_details.php?id=6721&manufacturer=Eibach Alignment&category=Suspension

Though to really get power down a LSD is only thing thats going to really fix it, cheap option Phantom Grip, expensive Quaife.

PS I did look at that anti-roll bar when deciding we wanted one on our Cinq, looked like it could be made to work though maybe too stiff, so went for teh MGF front one and modified.

 

[MKoers]

Did you do anything else on the cilinderhead other then the porting?

Where can I get a those decompression plates?
Did you use 2 original headgaskets or other ones?

 

[Dan]

You have them made. Use a head gasket as a template for a machine shop. Dan

 

[allanhelen]

Where can I get a those decompression plates?
Did you use 2 original headgaskets or other ones?

http://www.ferriday.co.uk/cnc/decompression_plates.shtml

Payen Gaskets seem to be the ones that hold up best

 

[fingers99]

This is one hell off a quick car

Must be the understatement of the decade! Well done!

LSD must be a must. If you switch to an aftermarket ECU, most will do boost limiting in lower gears which might make the car more controlable (and save the gearbag). Means going to MPI, though.......

Rods are said to only be safe for a little more than 140bhp...........

Do I still get my test drive?

 

[allanhelen]

Means going to MPI, though.......

It is MPI well on boost at least TBH most of the after market solutions I have been Looking at are not really worth the money or hassle and most report mediocre results at best

Do I still get my test drive?

After Me

 

[fingers99]

It is MPI well on boost at least TBH most of the after market solutions I have been Looking at are not really worth the money or hassle and most report mediocre results at best

The trick seems to be to combine a modern, all singing, all dancing ECU with a boost controller and something which can read which gear the car is in: you end up with a fairly crude version of ESP. Dave Walker is someone who it's worthwhile talking to about this.

Alternatively, it might just be possible to snag the ECU from a 500 along with the relevant sensors and reprogram the EPS from that. I know the 500 ECU can be programmed, not sure about the 500 Abarth one. Oldschool will know.

I'm always impressed by the EPS on the niece's Bini Cooper S Works, at least in the dry: she reports having it on the wrong side of the road in the wet.

Mind you, the Jason mobile would eat a Cooper S on power to weight alone.

 

[MKoers]

Already got some vids to show us?
How much did your decompplate cost?

 

[fordcosworth]

pretty impressive stuff!
any chance you can do a proper members motors thread in the MM section?
opens up your car to other members and you can collate all the info into one reference thread
(thats in addition to threads in the cento section though!)

Thankyou, yes i will do a members motors thread, ive been away from fiat forum for a while but i try and get on every so often so ill get round to it asap

Indeed impressive stuff!

I don't believe you have those seicento seats in!. I think they just sit way too high!

Hmmm see the camber bolts, which car did you order them for ? As mine never got those plates you got ...

Thanks
Ming

I always liked the look of the sie seats but yes they are tall......going soon for buckets! heheee

How much was the rear anti roll bar setup.

around 125quid i think

http://www.ferriday.co.uk/cnc/decompression_plates.shtml

Payen Gaskets seem to be the ones that hold up best

All i ever use. Payen seem to be the best everyday gaskets.

Must be the understatement of the decade! Well done!

LSD must be a must. If you switch to an aftermarket ECU, most will do boost limiting in lower gears which might make the car more controlable (and save the gearbag). Means going to MPI, though.......

Rods are said to only be safe for a little more than 140bhp...........

Do I still get my test drive?

Thankyou, the car runs MPI now (basicaly the full 75 engine) so it would be easy and better to go down that route anyway. Ill pop up some time for you to see what you think.

The trick seems to be to combine a modern, all singing, all dancing ECU with a boost controller and something which can read which gear the car is in: you end up with a fairly crude version of ESP. Dave Walker is someone who it's worthwhile talking to about this.

Alternatively, it might just be possible to snag the ECU from a 500 along with the relevant sensors and reprogram the EPS from that. I know the 500 ECU can be programmed, not sure about the 500 Abarth one. Oldschool will know.

I'm always impressed by the EPS on the niece's Bini Cooper S Works, at least in the dry: she reports having it on the wrong side of the road in the wet.

Mind you, the Jason mobile would eat a Cooper S on power to weight alone.

The first car i came across after the setup was mondeo ST220 which tried to over take from around 35mph, right up past 100 and i was still pulling away, works out at around 220bhp per ton with the interior stripped out as it is.

Anyway, the latest update.....ive today finished and setup my Aqumist water/methonal injection!
The kit runs the smallest jet (240cc/hr) at 9 bar pressure and takes a feed off pure water from a tank in the rear off the car (no methonal yet).
It is set to come in at 10psi, inlet temps have dropped massilvley on just water alone!, the pipes are cold to touch after a hard run like a cold can from the fridge, and the kit is working insainly well, holding the car in fourth gear at full boost and then flicking the switch to acctivate the water injection results in an instant kick and an increase in power right upto the the max revs, The kit seems to have a slightly negative effect on the power at 10psi when the inlet temps seem to be very low to start with but at 15psi the increase was suprizing to say that i didnt fit the kit for power gains, the tyres where not pleased after the trip home trying the kit for the first time and its brought on torque steer in third that makes things a little scary :devil:
I feel alot better knowing the charge temps, cylinder temps and EGTs are far far lower keeping the engine safer from DET, now im thinking its wize to turn down the boost a little to bring the power back down, power with the kit and my meth intercooler spray (which lowers temps upto 5 degrees alone) is estimated to be 165bhp/153lb.sf at least! Guys using these GT17 turbos on turbo minis and Nobles Motorsport estimated that a large cooler or water injection could release another 10bhp from the more than capable turbo, it has to be somehwere around that area for the increase in surge when activating the switch .........hard to turn down the boost but its better than holding my conrods and pistons at the side off the road somewhere i surpose

Thankyou

jason

 

[allanhelen]

Not one for saying I told you so about WI but................:spin:

Bob around if you want to try it with a bit a methanol I've got a barrel of the stuff at the back of garage, you will notice a difference as well as cooling it adds another source of fuel.

 

[NSMG]

around 125quid i think

And from which car came this antiroll bar ?

 

[fingers99]

May be that the car is doing the usual thing of raising the front/lowering the back as the torque comes on. This'll lead to scrabble/torque steer. Conventional RWD advice seems to be to soften the front (can't work that one out) or lower at front only.

There's a place in Northampton who do RR and track set up who may be able to advise.

Otherwise, bigger tyres/wheels (some interesting stuff from Aaron on this on Cento rebels, maybe here too now).

 

[carmadrory]

any videos

 

[fingers99]

There I as reading through an old copy of PPC and I found:

"........I rummaged through the cupboard and came up with the turbo control valve from an Audi TT. .....Karl downloaded the appropriate softare into the ECU and after a little plumbing we started to map the boost levels.

The great thing about electronic control is that you can set the boost level against throttle angle as well as rpm. This means you can have big boost on full throttle, much less on 75% throttle and next to nothing on 50% throttle.

The result is an engine that develops turbo power but drives much more like a normally aspirated car......."

Dave Walker in Practical Performance Car, July 2006. The subject was a 998 turbocharged Mini putting out 120bhp.

Of course, there remains the issue of lag (the handling issues remain, but.......) which really needs sorting out first. A proper tubular manifold and a decent exhaust should help the turbo spool up quicker............

All (!) it then needs is a set of forged pistons and H beam rods and it may stay together when you whack the boost up again!

I have doubts about water injection on a road car. Firstly, there are engineering solutions (bigger, better ducted intercoolers, better engine management, tougher engine components) to every advantage it presents. Secondly there are fuels which pretty much obviate the need for it (E75, LPG).

Use only distilled water. Methanol is known to corrode aluminium and zinc and cause bore wash. Damage to piston lands is routine. The old Buick/Oldsmobile V8 (first turbocharged production car, in NA form later pinched by Auntie Rover) used methanol/water and suffered from this (it's said that the factory recommended mix -- known as Rocket Fuel -- included soluble oil to act as an upper cylinder lubricant). If you need to add something to the water to stop it freezing (winter only) then a little methylated spirit (generally a mix of methanol and ethanol) will do the job.

Thirdly, I hope you have some nice easy way of cutting boost when the water tank is empty!

On the handling front, the latest Demon Tweeks catalogue has a few anti-rise devices. Difficult to work out how they work, though, from the details in there.

 

[craigb244]

ecu controlled boost control is what my car is going to get next. (it needs it!)
megasquirt has come a long way the past year.

just gotta find a nice pwm valve

Imho pistons and rods are not THAT important unless going all out... and before them need attention there will be other bits that need work.

for better charge cooling id say go for a air to water cooler over a larger intercooler (which will only add to the lag problem) but a proper standalone ecu is a must for a turbo conversion to work right.

mpi and sequential injection is nice for getting fuel distribution spot on.
since i enabled sequential injection my car has smoothed right out and it idles better then a standard cinq, which is surprising when you consider its low compression and has a lightend flywheel.

 

[fordcosworth]

There I as reading through an old copy of PPC and I found:

"........I rummaged through the cupboard and came up with the turbo control valve from an Audi TT. .....Karl downloaded the appropriate softare into the ECU and after a little plumbing we started to map the boost levels.

The great thing about electronic control is that you can set the boost level against throttle angle as well as rpm. This means you can have big boost on full throttle, much less on 75% throttle and next to nothing on 50% throttle.

The result is an engine that develops turbo power but drives much more like a normally aspirated car......."

Dave Walker in Practical Performance Car, July 2006. The subject was a 998 turbocharged Mini putting out 120bhp.

Of course, there remains the issue of lag (the handling issues remain, but.......) which really needs sorting out first. A proper tubular manifold and a decent exhaust should help the turbo spool up quicker............

All (!) it then needs is a set of forged pistons and H beam rods and it may stay together when you whack the boost up again!

I have doubts about water injection on a road car. Firstly, there are engineering solutions (bigger, better ducted intercoolers, better engine management, tougher engine components) to every advantage it presents. Secondly there are fuels which pretty much obviate the need for it (E75, LPG).

Use only distilled water. Methanol is known to corrode aluminium and zinc and cause bore wash. Damage to piston lands is routine. The old Buick/Oldsmobile V8 (first turbocharged production car, in NA form later pinched by Auntie Rover) used methanol/water and suffered from this (it's said that the factory recommended mix -- known as Rocket Fuel -- included soluble oil to act as an upper cylinder lubricant). If you need to add something to the water to stop it freezing (winter only) then a little methylated spirit (generally a mix of methanol and ethanol) will do the job.

Thirdly, I hope you have some nice easy way of cutting boost when the water tank is empty!

On the handling front, the latest Demon Tweeks catalogue has a few anti-rise devices. Difficult to work out how they work, though, from the details in there.

Hello, ive been driving the car in this set up more and and more and im beginning to understand how it behaves so im adapting very well to the characteristics, i was out recently with a friend who drives a Mazda RX8, he took me to a place where without warning he booted it and threw it round some serious corners at full go!, so i went into the corners to follow and see how it got on..........it was amazing, stayed right with the balanced grippy Mazda all the way through the tight and twistyies. By adapting to the set up it can be made to work albeit a little hard work, for example changing the time in which i put the foot down during a corner uses lag to my advantage as the smooth gradual boost increase gradually brings torque to the wheels as you exit the corner, its been aided massively by bringing on negative camber.

Also straight line grip......by playing with the throttle on standing starts ive found that unlike the t15 which spiked up to a bar at only half throttle the gt1752 actually follows a gradual in crease with throttle, for example at half throttle it may only make 8psi rather than 15 which has massively increased the way it can put the power down rather than going for full throttle and trying to deal with it.
Im glad i looked into the turbo as much as i did when i built the engine up because its a real cracker for the engine and it makes the torque manageable using certain driving styles.

As for the water injection, i hear a few people comment on negative side effects but to be honest, i no its massively reducing the chance off DET aswell as helping to keep the pistons cool etc with the added bonus off giving the power a huge kick, so for me its perfect and i pritty much change my engine every year or so anyway dont i

Anyway, latest update -

cars coming off road for a few weeks soon for the following things -

new wiring loom (intermitant running faults are dreadful).

new exhaust down pipe for quicker spool up and better flowing at high revs.

New 2" throttle body plenum (again for better flow)

A little welding, and wiring.

Tricker 40mm adaptor plate for TB instaed of the 75 38mm item i run.

And finaly my new FMIC.

 

[Punto1990]

Hi,

Wow they are minted figures!!

I seen that you put up a list of all the parts you used now I have been reading a few threads to do with a turbo conversion but I still dont know what parts I would need to get a turbo in my mk2 fiat punto 1.2 8v??

Any help would be great

Thanks Kirsty x

 

[allanhelen]

Try signing up here Jason is on there most of the time.

Hope you have an empty Wallet