Technical Tripod spider replacement

[Ralf S.]

Gerrard (1/9 JTD) is still giving me some juddering/bad vibes under load and when cornering (left handers are worse) which I suspect is not the *outer* CV joints, since it doesn't otherwise whine, click or clunk etc. when I'm turning at full lock.

This thread:

https://www.fiatforum.com/stilo/163660-strange-wobble-vibration-differential-2.html

makes me think that it's either the offside tripod spider (spidoid? ) doodah on the end of the driveshaft (aka "inner CV joint)... or potentially the differential.. but since the since the spidoid is just £27 from S4P it might be worth a punt just to change that, to see whether it fixes the vibrations... rather than buy a whole new driveshaft (or differential).

I can forsee that the beast will be quite "attached" to the end of the driveshaft and reluctant to come apart. Has anyone replaced a spidoid and is it usually tricky or not (to prise it off the shaft)?

Any other tips for a painless removal...? I do have Her Majesty, Grinder "Queen of the Workshop" who can destroy any reluctant component that defies her will etc. , if it comes to it... but if a few taps from a little hammer is sufficient, that's worth knowing..


Ta,


Ralf S.

 

[dtimmins1985]

Hey ralf...

I have a similar issue but its in low down torque... lets say 4th gear between 35 and 40ish mph... when trying to drive like a taxi driver i get this rumble when boost builds and the steering and dashboard vibrates

I was told that my inner shafts had a little play... since reading on bravo section... common issue that gives this type of feel under high strain / load... mine rarley does it as i rarley drive like a taxi / grampa with my gears but still the same.. i can replicate the fault under high boost at low revs in 3rd 4th 5th and 6th...

Anyhow... i will be replacing the inner shaft tripods, cups look fine but tripods need replacing and new ones regreasing with high temp stuff like LM2 (yellow / white'ish grease)

Will do mine after the 500mile trip next week.

You have to take out the whole shaft and do it on the bench... or you would have to be super skinny, bendy etc to get at it whilst its in the gearbox (its quite close)... not like the other end of the shaft.

Only if i had known prior to having my outer boot replaced, i would of done it all at same time to save more money on replacing the gearbox oil as you will loose some when doing this job...

So its a drain box and shafts out job, then refill box once shafts back in.

Let me know how you get on... i may struggle to find tripods for the multijet / abarth shafts...

S4P are very limited when it comes to bits for the MJ 16v stilo there also local to me too... give me a pm if you want to save on postage.

 

[dtimmins1985]

Forgot to add... taking the shafts out is easy but as said above.. be ready to catch the gearbox oil if not drained first...

Also... when you have the shaft out, the tripod might be pressed together but from memory (I checked two weeks ago) on eper and it looks like its bolted like the outer C.V so should be pretty easy once old grease is cleaned out and the inner is visible, there may also be a tiny circlip too... sorry i have been brain washed by eper and also a haynes manual for my mates 95' changeover 300tdi disco...

As previously said.. let me know how the strip down goes as i will be doing mine very soon.

 

[Ralf S.]

I've ordered a Spidoid and I'll give it a go in the next week or two..

It's a good tip to remove the circlip on the shaft first.. I hadn't noticed that in ePer.

I'm hoping the spidoid will just come off the driveshaft without too much heating/belting it with a hammer... but as above, I can always cut it off with an angle grinder if it really comes down to it.

The spidoid fits into cups, which are a clip-assisted push-fit into the diff casing. I think the spidoid will come out of the cup without having to take the cup out of the diff, so I'm not expecting to lose any transmission oil (although I have half a litre knocking around, if I do need to top it up).

You reminded me to also order an inner CV boot, since when I get there I might find that mine is on the way out. With the spidoid off the shaft, that's a good time to replace the boot.

I'll update the thread on how I get on.. but it'll be a few weeks until the pieces arrive/I plan it in (okay it with the Younger Mrs S.)..


Ralf S.

 

[dtimmins1985]

Hehe good luck...

Id rather drain the box and do them on the bench.. need to price up now.. got a 510mile trip next week and that's the furthest i will have taken this stilo so fingers crossed.

Two jobs planned before that drive is to swap out intercooler and clean all piping from that to intake manifold... along with a boost leak test... basically... a hard days graft.

Then sort the other niggles once i return.

 

[Ralf S.]

I got round to fixing this. It was a lot more straightforward than I was fearing.

To remove the driveshaft, I just had to undo the suspension damper bolts vs the hub and then the track rod end (all 17mm bolts). I also removed the brake caliper and tied it out of the way.

I also planned to remove the driveshaft from the hub but my 36mm socket (for the wheel nut) is a thick "impact" socket and didn't fit inside the nut housing.. so Plan B was to leave the driveshaft in the hub. There was enough free play to pull the spider out and rotate it out.

See what I found here:

https://www.fiatforum.com/stilo/452867-bad-vibes.html?p=4300835

The spider is held on with a circlip (the type with "ears" rather than the annoying "snap-ring" style so came off easily with a regular circlip pliers.

The old spider surprisingly came off the driveshaft with a few taps of a mallet. I guess it wore some extra room for itself on the splines when it was all juddery and vibrating... but anyway, nice and simple.

The new Spider was an Original Birth.. looks okay and just £22. It was a tight fit to get into the shaft. I had to double check the number of splines but it was the right size, just a tight fit. There's a concave face and a flat face. The concave face is the end that goes on first.

I had to drive it on using an old Imperial socket of about 25mm in size. The shaft is 23mm so the socket had to be big enough to just sit on the (flat face of the) inner casting. When it has on far enough to show the circlip groove, I refitted the circlip.

Then I cleaned out the cup and the gaitor. The old needle rollers and pieces of them were all over the inside of the cup and the gaitor, so I removed all the old grease and cleaned out all the crevices of the gaitor.

Then I stuffed the new spider back in the cup and lubed it with some CV joint grease... before reassembling the Track Rod End and the damper.

I managed to re-use the gaitor clip and the gaitor was very good so I left it on there. I had a spare gaitor and clip just in case it looked any way worn out, since changing the gaitor later would be a spider-off job... and it's a lot tighter on the driveshaft now.

I also had a look at the CV joint. Just removed the gaitor and had a look inside but that looked very greasy and in good condition, so I put it back and left it alone.

The car is miles better now... almost perfect. On right hand bends I can now feel a veeeery light and occasional vibe from the nearside driveshaft... so early next year (after the MOT/once Doctor Death has had an input) I'll probably fit a new spider on the nearside too, since it's done the same mileage as the one that failed, so might be similarly a little tired.

The two remaining rings on the failed Spider have "some" but not much wear in the bearings... so on the other hand, apart from the one that failed, the spiders look in really good nick (original 2004 Fiat parts and 150,000 miles).


Ralf S.

 

[dtimmins1985]

**** hot info yet again... i need to do mine!!!

 

[Davren]

lubed it with some CV joint grease... before reassembling

Shouldn't use the black Molybdenum Disulphide CV joint grease for tripod joints. Fiat specify Tutela MRM ZERO, which is a semi fluid grease.

Thread about it here: https://www.fiatforum.com/stilo/324427-stilo-jtd-drive-shaft.html
.

 

[Ralf S.]

I've had a rummage around for the MRM Zero (or the similar-spec' sounding Star 700) and it seems to be the proverbial rocking horse poo.

It looks like it has to be a NLGI 0 spec' grease. The regular greases available are all NLGI 2 (including the CV joint grease I have used) which is just thicker/heavier. If it was summer, I'd be inclined to leave it.. but it's winter now, so the beast needs thinner grease that won't turn to paste at (I'm expecting) colder-to-sub zero temperatures.

Spider does seem to want 140ml... which is about 40% of a Coca Cola can.. I probably didn't pack mine with that much..

Anyway.... I also had a look at other lubricants manufacturers (Shell do one too) but similar problem... nobody seems to sell it.

I'll see if I can track some (i.e. any) NLGI 0 down.


Interesting "make your own" suggestions though (mixing gear oil with the regular (NLGI 2) Moly grease.. I like that one.. but I'll probably only resort to DIY if I can't get anywhere.

The threads also all report that the old Spider is easy to remove whereas the new one is trickier to fit. Nice to know that Gerrard is one of the "they're all like that, sir... "


Ralf S.

 

[Ralf S.]

Hmmm...

So far I have some contenders;

Petronas/Selenia MRM Zero
Petronas/Selenia Star 700 (This is a grade 1/0 )
Mobilux EP 0
Fuchs Renolit EP 0
SKF LGWM 1 (This is a grade 1 - SKF don't seem to have a 0)
Castrol Sheerol EP 0

Of the grade 0's, the only one I can find openly for sale is the Mobilux (if you don't mind a 25 gallon drum.. ) or the Castrol Sheerol (similar 25 gallons at a time).

http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/greases/1347609/?sra=pmpn sells the SKF, albeit it's a grade 1. Maybe okay for warmer climates.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/GENUINE-C...epid=0&hash=item5b39bc1ec1:g:K1oAAOSwTf9ZOsgP seems to have bought a big drum of Castrol and is selling it off in 500g tubs, judging by the lack of Castrol branding on the tubs.. but probably the best option.


Ralf S.

 

[Davren]

Did you try Northgate Garage?

I eventually phoned Petronas (01727 811213), who make Tutela and Selenia products. They gave me a list of companies that had bought MRM ZERO from them. Northgate Garage, (a Fiat dealer in Canterbury 01227 828200) posted me 2 tubes that arrived the next day. £3.48 each + postage.

.

 

[Ralf S.]

In the end I bought the 500g tub of Castrol. I've got the nearside spider also to do (although it's fairly quiet - just sounds noisy now that the off-side one is new.. ) and I liked the idea of having plenty of grease, with some left over, to put on the garage shelf for any time I need it in the future.

And I made the fleabay seller go and dig out all the spec's for the Castrol grease, to make sure it matched the Petronas/Tutela spec'... so when he came back with all the right answers it would have been rude to mug him off..


Ralf S.