Technical Towbar/Elecrics problem

[weakenderman]

Hi - wonder if someone has had the same problem as me or can shed some light on it.

I recently has a PCT towbar fitted with single electrics (weekender 2000) . First time I towed my caravan all was well until about 20 mins when the front dashboard power went.

Traced it to a blown 10A fuse.

Is this a common fault - do I need to upgrade the fuse to (say) 15A ?

Or have I got a short somewhere ?

Thanks for any help in advance !

 

[Andy Monty]

sounds to me someone has hashed up wiring your towbar to be honest..

what was the fuse controlling?

caravans draw a lot more power (well the sidelight circuit does) than a trailer as they often have the side light, numberplate light, side marker light and front marker plus the cars lights for that side leading to overloading of the sidelight circuit and popping the fuse....

we have a Ford focus and when the bar was fitted they just scotch hooked into the loom like yours by the sounds of it anyhow we had a short on the front marker light (water bottle pushed onto the back of the front corner marker lamp and pushed the 2 uninsulated spade connections together) first time it popped the sidelight fuse (no problem) then it left us with no roadlights and no dash lights it had popped another fuse which controls the dashboard lights and light switch itself....

Your best bet for protection against this in the future is to....

fit a 7 way bypass relay this isolates the caravan electrics from the car and gives it its own meaty power supply...



https://www.fiatforum.com/grande-pu...ng-towbar-12-n-socket-7-way-bypass-relay.html



its not that complex to be honest think of it as making the wire longer...

take the brake lights for arguments sake....

this is Pin 6 on the towbar socket which is wired RED

(you still following)

this RED used to be scotch locked onto the brake light wire on the cars loom and runs to the socket

instead remove the red wire from the brake light scotch hook and replace with the red wire attached to the relay, the red wire from the socket goes to terminal 6 on the relay



and so on for the other 5 terminals (not counting reverse or earth..)

then the earth from the relay and the earth from the socket (pin 3) need to be crimped together and attached to the chassis..

and you need a live feed from the battery fused with a 20A fuse (think of wiring in a sub supply)

the relay has 8 wires from it (one white to earth) (all coloured as per the light socket) and 7 terminals (one of the 8 wires is reverse)

the 8th gray wire is for a reversing light so ignore that one if you arnt fitting a 12S (white caravan socket)

hope that makes it a bit clearer

also with that relay there is no need to fit a Flash repeater for the trailer indicators as its set in the relay so no messing about with that

Hope that clears it up a bit if you brake it down into one circuit at a time you should have no problems its when you pull and strip the towbar socket wires into the boot along with the 8 wires on the relay it can start to look like a bowl of spaghetti

any more Q's i'll do my best to help

relay can be had from here
http://www.towsure.com/product/13145-Smart_7_Way_Can-Bus_Relay

 

[weakenderman]

Hi
thanks for the reply.

The fuse is the one for the petrol guage/speedo/temp guage/clock.

 

[weakenderman]

Hi
I'm going away to France shortly so was hoping that this was something simple and could be sorted quickly...........!

 

[Andy Monty]

you could remove all the bulbs from the caravan and use a multimeter to check for shorts (cant do a resistance check with the bulbs in as you meter through them)

you checked inside the plug on the van brand new vans wiring in the 12N is often shabby to say the least)

Its probably a 1-2 hour job to fit the bypass relay most time taken to pull a new wire from the battery from front to back

 

[weakenderman]

Hi - thanks for the replies.

I have a Pennine folding camper rather than a caravan. Only about 2-3 years old and hasn't been used much.

My mate towed it from where I bought in Feb (with no electric probs) and its been sittting in my parents garage since then, so I'm pretty sure it isn't the camper.

I've never had a fuse go since I've had the Marea.

Can I uprate the fuse to 15A ?

 

[Andy Monty]

Hi - thanks for the replies.

I have a Pennine folding camper rather than a caravan. Only about 2-3 years old and hasn't been used much.

My mate towed it from where I bought in Feb (with no electric probs) and its been sittting in my parents garage since then, so I'm pretty sure it isn't the camper.

I've never had a fuse go since I've had the Marea.

Can I uprate the fuse to 15A ?

Ahh a pennine folding camper which one?

has it got lights built into the front everyone upwards of a sterling has them have you got stuff in the front gas locker? if it moves in transit it can put a short on the back of the light fittings (Penine in their wisdom decided to save 4pence and not put insulated boots on the spade connections) stuff moves puts a short on the side lights resulting in zapped fuses

i wouldn't put a bigger fuse in you dont want to melt the loom

also check the Plug (my mum and dads pennine sterling is about 2-3 years old and i set to and rewired the plug it was a right botch job

same with the mains sockets inside

 

[weakenderman]

Hi
its a pennine Sterling 510.

Yes it has 2 small (white) side lights either side at the front.

Yes we have stuff(tho not much) in the front locker (no gas bottles yet tho).

Funny you should mention the front lights - when I went to check the eletric hook up last week (after the towbar was fitted) , obe of the sidelights was out - looked like faulty seating of the bulb which I rectified.

 

[Andy Monty]

faulty seating of the bulb

I bet its been knocked from behind (ahem) as the 2 blade connections +/- (which the spades push onto, have the bulb holder built in and this grips the plastic lamp holder with a couple of metal splines)

ours was caused by the water bottles resting against the back of those lamps..

its a simple test..

take the lenses off undo the 2 stainless pozzi screws and ease the light holder out if of the front panel the legs on the fitting are are bent you will see it, they are only about 8mm apart wrap them individually in tape as a quick bodge the wires are very short and i just got away with replacing them completely but it was tight..

the rear lights shouldn't be a problem as they are Jokon units with a factory fitted moulded plug unit to each light unit

 

[weakenderman]

Hi Andy
not had chance to check it yet, but I bet this is the problem.

thanks for your help - invaluable !

Cheers
Steve

 

[Andy Monty]

If i can find my digital camera i'll put some snaps up later tonight


Is this your first Pennine camper??

Not wanting to teach you to suck eggs

however pay a bit of attention to between the plywood fold out bed base and the foam bed itself ours suffers badly from condensation and needs daily airing when in use and before packing away for strogage

seen several S/H units with lovely mold under the bed. where as the older conway challenger we had never suffered...

Also if your off to the warmer parts of France fit a 100mm or so 12v PC cooling fan behind the top vent for the fridge so it blows out i just soldered it to a fag lighter plug it gives a forced air change to the heat converter and makes the fridge work better..

 

[Hellcat]

Relay is a must. Blew the airbag ECU with a faulty trailer board on my old Marea.

 

[Andy Monty]

right cant find my camera so used my phone not the best pics in the world but never mind...

remove front cover and remove 2 screws (Watch for the 2 plastic spacers falling out and rolling under something big and heavy they sit behind the lamp unit and the front locker)

the lamp unit itself has a separator between the connections..

here you can just about see how close the crimps sit together and the original Pennine spades are very soft and flexible i just replaced them with blue insulated crimps but cant see a problem with a bit of tape..

 

[weakenderman]

Hi
thanks for the photos.

Yes this my first camper of any kind. Thanks for the tips.

Mmm - not really time to fit a relay as I'm gpoing away next Friday and lots of work on.

This is a fairly new 2004 camper and the think the electrics(front light excepted) are ok.

Steve

 

[Andy Monty]

Hi
thanks for the photos.

Yes this my first camper of any kind. Thanks for the tips.

Mmm - not really time to fit a relay as I'm gpoing away next Friday and lots of work on.

This is a fairly new 2004 camper and the think the electrics(front light excepted) are ok.

Steve

No problems glad to be of help..

when unfolding just remember back first front end second (or you will snap the erection cables)

likewise when folding up front first then back...

watch the sink drain which is fitted to the base unit where the cooker unit sits the plastic dish is flimsy and easily cracks (we fiberglassed ours in the end as it was leaking into the bottom cupboard

Also when unpacking Photograph the Spice/ Glass rack as if you get it in slightly the wrong place you will wreck the light on the wardrobe (guess how i know this )

also if you going to land of the frogs dont forget the continental to blue plug adapter and just bare in mind you only have at most a 6 Amp power supply so a low wattage kettle is also a must or Monsure forggie camp owner will sulk as he trundles off to reset the sites electric on a 10 minute basis...


http://www.towsure.com/product/349-Continental_Mains_Converter_Lead

Also don't forget you cant exchange calor gas in france you can however exchange Camping Gaz and assuming you have the bulkhead regulator and the 4.5KG calor butane pigtail you can get a camping gaz adapter to fit it

http://www.marinemegastore.com/product-product-AFX_1_59095.htm


hope this helps (like i said im not trying to be patronizing and no doubt other family members will be telling you snipets of info)

edit Its very worth while investing in a Polarity tester as French electrical wiring can be very Iffy last time we was in France both campsites had reverse polarity which if you turn your fridge on you run the risk of damaging it which would = warm beer its a simple fix (just swap the live and neutral in your blue plug)

but before you turn the fridge on plug this into the sockets in the camper if all three lights come on your in business
http://www.towsure.com/product/545-Mains_Polarity_Tester_Plug

and remember when a french driver flashes you he's claiming right of way and he's coming through

 

[jug]

Can I uprate the fuse to 15A ?

only ever use the fuse that the circuit is rated for, any higher and you will damage something other than the fuse next time there is a problem, and thats a lot more hassle than replacing a fuse.

 

[Renegade_8]

I looked at that realy, it's no stock per the site and is alos for CAN bus equiped cars.
Jug is 100% right about the fuse and in this case I would advise getting an independant auto electrician in to check out the trailer if you are not comfortable with electrics yourself.

 

[Andy Monty]

I looked at that realy, it's no stock per the site and is alos for CAN bus equiped cars.

The relay will work thats the exact unit what the towbar center fitted to my G punto and i replaced after 6 months due to a faulty unit (long story involving a day before holidays and not been able to be fitted in to the towbar center)..

on the lid of the unit it states "Fits vehicles with standard or multiplexed wiring"

so basically its a universal relay for most cars saves the towbar centers from having to stock a larger range of units

 

[weakenderman]

Hi
thanks again.

I had the towbar professionally fitted and I think it cane with a 2 way relay, but obviously this isn't a seperate isloated supply from the electrics.

I was hoping go go camping this w/e - but the weather here in Derby today has been dire.

I've been watching the pennine 'erection'(no pun) video and making notes.

Tomorrow I'm gonna take it for a long tow (to see if the electrics are still a problem - having first secured stuff in the front locker) and then have a go at putting it up - along with the awning. Its given it sunny tomorrow afternoon !

I have a 10m blue/blue plug - do I need an adapter for france ? I guess I need to email the 2 sites I'm going to to ask - they're both 4* ones and quite modern.

Done quite a bit of continental driving (altho more cycling than driving), and thankfully not much in Italy (its like dogems around Naples and Sorrento !). Sorry any Italian drivers !

My FIL has done quite a bit of continental camping so has been telling me about the various types of gas etc.

As its after 2003(or 4) the camper already has a bulkhead regulator fitted .

Haven't yet got a 4.5 Kg gas bottle. Probably gonna make do with a Calor gas one, as we also have a seperate 2 burner stove (for the awning) which runs off the 907 CG bottle that my FIL has given me - so can exchange this in France.

Heck - this is a lot more complicated(and expensive !) than continental cycle camping !

Thanls for passing on your experience !

 

[Andy Monty]

Whats the 2 way relay?? this is usually for the gray "S" plug"


yes you will probably need the continental adapter plug although some pitches are more than 10 mtrs from the site power point we have a 20 mtr lead

as for the Erection of the awning its fairly simple (i would say that having got it to a fine art)

best way we found to do it is to attach the roof poles before pushing up the inside of the main camper this way its easier to reach


Where are you going to practice putting it up I could do with a good laugh

edit: when did the over run brakes last see grease? If you have access to a Grease Gun give the 3 Nipples (2 on top in the plastic moulding and one underneath the A frame at the base of the handbrake lever) should make the brakes run smoother and stop them "banging" on normal Lithium grease is what you want