Technical Sunroof troubles….

[Sunroofjo]

Hello, having fixed the gearbox problem, we are now considering the sunroof troubles!

We have looked at all the previous posts, but haven't really got to the point where we understand what's happening, so maybe someone who has been here with theirs knows what we need to do!
When we got the car, both the sunroofs had been sealed shut with silicone. So far we have got the silicone off, and tried to various things to ensure that the exit points aren't blocked and fiddled around with curtain wire as per another sunroof post suggestion.

Last night though, it rained really heavily and today we were the proud owners of a multipla with a wet internal ceiling, and matching wet footwell. We had mostly anticipated this though, but today we have tried to remedy it… and got a bit stuck.
I've added two photo's to illustrate where we are at with it.
Essentially, there appears to be a metal pipe leading to what might be a water-exit point from the sunroof, but it looks as though it needs some kind of rubber grommet with a 90 degree angle to join the pipe to the hole in the sunroof.
Can anyone confirm this? Are we barking up the wrong tree, or peering down the wrong hole??

Any help with this would be much appreciated!
Thanks.

 

[widemouthfrog]

I think you are barking up the wrong tree. The Multipla sunroof installation is unusual in that it doesn't have any drainage gulleys or pipes. That is both a weakness and a strength:

A weakness in the sense that it relies entirely on the integrity of the seal between the soft rubber and the roof glass to keep water out of the car.

A strength in that there is no substantial 'tray' that most other sunroof assemblies would sit in on other cars, and no drainage pipes coming from it either. As they aren't there, they can't get blocked or rust out, which is the failing that befalls most other cars with sunroofs. It also gives a remarkably slim sunroof installation, which maximises headroom. Take a look at how little depth the sunroof takes up compared to other cars and you'll see what I mean.

I don't think the metal tube that's shown in your second photo is a drainage pipe. It's hard to tell the location of that picture within the car. Where is it? It could be one of the tubes through which run the cables that pull the sunroof open/closed. If that's so, someone insensitive has been there before you and the cable is no more. That's a bit of a problem! Does the sunroof open/close OK?

There is another (more common) way in which the sunroof seal is breached. It has nothing to do with the seal between glass and rubber seal; it's a gap between the hard plastic outer frame and the painted roof. In your first photo, that's where the blue paint meets the black plastic.

The sunroof 'tray' in the Multipla is actually quite a shallow aluminium pressing. This is bonded (not welded) to the main steel roof panel. Over the years, the differential expansion of steel and aluminium when parked on hot sun or freezing winter nights eventually breaks the bond and the aluminium tray detaches in places. Rainwater can then seep between the black plastic seal and the roof paintwork on the outside of the car and then find its way through these localised gaps, usually ending up as a puddle on the inside of the roof lining either side of the centre roof console where the reading lights are. Surprisingly, the roof lining itself is quite waterproof, so it can sit there collecting water for a long time before you become aware of a leak. When you drive off, the water sloshes around and you get a dousing through the slots on the centre console....

There are some checks you can make to see where your problem lies. For the seal between glass and soft rubber gasket, make a visual check to see if the glass is pulled down onto the seal. This is quite difficult to do and you'll have to tilt your head at some odd angles and do a fair bit of squinting. You can also try sliding a strip of paper or very thin card through the gap, if you think there is one. Another method is to get a pump-spray bottle full of water an spray into the gap all the way around the glass. Not much - just enough to wet the surfaces. You could even apply the water with a paint brush instead. Then open the roof (assuming you can do that, of course!) and look at the way the water lies on the lip edge of the rubber seal and the underside of the roof glass. It's easy to spot leaking areas.

For the seal between the outer trim and the roof panel, leave the car parked up in direct sunshine for a few hours/days to get it thoroughly dried out, then run some Captain Tolley's sealant (several places on ebay sell it) into the groove where the two meet. It's a very runny silicon based sealant that relies on capillary action to draw it into small gaps. The first application will likely disappear very readily into the gap. Leave it to go off for an hour or so, then repeat. As the gap closes up, you should find it takes longer and longer to get sucked into the gap. If you don't get the offending gap(s) well dried out before applying the Captain Tolley's, there'll be water in the cracks, you won't get any capillary action and the fix won't work.

Good luck!

 

[wiltshire]

Both of mine leaked, the rear one a lot, the front one just a little. The rear one I taped with gaffer tape ( black to match the car, I'm not some sort of bodger ), the front one I put up with although when driving off after rain some water was dumped into my lap via the sun visor. I got some strange looks.
he front one got the dithers and wouldn't close fully with the motor without going backwards and forwards a few times. I got it shut and then remembered the big key thing that came with the car and took out the fuse serving the motors and wound it fully closed manually. I tried the key on the rear roof and it moved forward appreciably although it was already at the extent of its travel under the motor control.

I've had no more leaks since, no sunroof opening either but as the windows and the air-con work it's no problem.

Sunroofs are not an extra I'd ever choose.

 

[Sunroofjo]

Wow! Thank you widemouthfrog that is such a wonderfully instructive answer! We will order the Captains Trolley's today and follow your detailed instructions. We're currently experiencing a lot of water falling from the skies, but when the sun returns we will get onto the task of drying it out and working the fix. There's still some residue hanging around from the silicone application, but we will meanwhile clean up the area better before starting the treatment.
In answer to your questions about the sunroof's opening - yes! They both open and close ok, we had to replace the switches, but we had a stash of multipla parts in the attic, as our son has decided that we need to commit our lifework & energies to keeping as many of them on the road as possible! (This is our 3rd, we currently have 2 on the road.)
Regarding the position of the mystery pipe, I'll add two photo's showing me pointing to where it is - in the original post showing the photo of the pipe - the open end of the pipe is pointing towards the rear of the car, and it's directly below the circled hole in the sunroof which is why we thought it was the drainage… but I have to say, if it's not the drainage we are not sure what it is!!) Anyway, the photo's added today show where the pipe is from the exterior of the car. You have to pull the roof lining away a bit to see it.
Thanks so much for your reply today frog, we will look forward to the sun shining again and getting the captain trolley's going!

 

[Sunroofjo]

Thanks Wiltshire! We chuckled at your reply this morning!
Some interesting suggestions though regarding the key - I did discover one yesterday behind a plastic piece attached to the roof lining, although I wasn't sure what it was for, so I looked at it and put it back. If we decide that we need to manually close the sunroof at some stage, we will investigate that further!

 

[Sunroofjo]

[/QUOTE]Sunroofs are not an extra I'd ever choose.[/QUOTE]

Our son is crazy about sunroofs!

 

[widemouthfrog]

The forum ePER is playing up atm, so I saved the attached from my laptop version, which shows what I think is the tube assembly in question (Item 14). I'm pretty sure it's the guide tube setup for the sunroof cables, so I'm not sure how/why yours is still working!

 

[Sunroofjo]

Hi Widemouthfrog, yes, I'd say it is item 14 on the diagram - I can't see what item 14 is supposed to be though, but yes that's the pipe we have!
Sunroofs may be working just on the basis that if the car only does one thing, it needs to have operational sunroofs, …and maybe it understands that.