General Strange noise from the clutch/gearbox

[alan01256]

Hi all: Ok my nieces Mk2b Punto 1.2 8V has started making a strange noise from the clutch/gearbox.


It only does it when cold, or just started up. Its a dry rumble & the trust release bearing rattles, but again only when cold.


The car drives fine & once warmed up the noise stops/disappears.


Any clues?


PS its only done 55K & apart from the noise its tip-top.

 

[flisko]

55k on original clutch?

 

[Ziggy122]

Dip the clutch and noise disappears?
Can you hear it while driving?

55k on original clutch is probably about 75% of its life gone
Maybe more if its a city clutch

Ziggy

 

[alan01256]

Ziggy122: Yes when the clutch is depressed the rattling disappears. However the dry rumble noise does not.


The car originally came from the London area so lots of city driving plus one learner so I suspect it does need changing.


Looking at the Haynes manual its not a complicated job.


I have heard there can be an issue with the 1st motion shaft bearing. Is this a gearbox strip down or is it attacked from within the bell housing?

 

[Ziggy122]

Ziggy122: Yes when the clutch is depressed the rattling disappears. However the dry rumble noise does not.


The car originally came from the London area so lots of city driving plus one learner so I suspect it does need changing.


Looking at the Haynes manual its not a complicated job.


I have heard there can be an issue with the 1st motion shaft bearing. Is this a gearbox strip down or is it attacked from within the bell housing?

Sounds like MAYBE the input bearing is failing too
Catching it early is best!
Bearing and new Input/diff seal kits aint mega money either!

Alot of refurb places DONT use Ball bearing bearings, they use Roller bearing, apprently dont fail as bad?

You have to take the Gear selector and bellhousing off to access the input shaft bearing
There is a guide in the mk2 section by Mr Wild (of Flisko put it in a guide / link to it ) Well worth a good read!

I've had bellhousing off before, its not hard, just alot of bolts...

Ziggy

 

[alan01256]

Well, just taken the Punto to my local garage & they reckon its the 1st motion/input shaft bearing. Seems its a common fault & there is a replacement roller bearing instead of the standard ball bearing unit on the market to solve the problem.


I have a receipt for a new clutch (3pc) fitted about 6mths before I bought the car so at least its just the cost of a gearbox rebuild/refurbish at £450.


So the car goes in on Monday to be fixed. Pity its not summer time or I'd be doing it myself but at that price I'm going to let someone else get dirty.

 

[digger58]

It should not cost anything near that amount to replace the bearing and seal!

 

[alan01256]

No that price covers labour to remove the gearbox, have the existing gearbox completely refurbished/reconditioned. Replace the clutch if required, though I don't this to be necessary as I have a receipt to indicate that it was recently replace, & reinstalled into the car. All sundries, gearbox oil etc. Plus the reconditioned gearbox comes with a 2yr warranty. Oh & it also includes VAT.


I know that you can replace the bearing & seal for a lot less but you still need to remove the gearbox to do this. Plus having the gearbox refurbished/reconditioned will give the owner, my niece, confidence that it will last the lifetime she will own the car.

 

[Ziggy122]

No that price covers labour to remove the gearbox, have the existing gearbox completely refurbished/reconditioned. Replace the clutch if required, though I don't this to be necessary as I have a receipt to indicate that it was recently replace, & reinstalled into the car. All sundries, gearbox oil etc. Plus the reconditioned gearbox comes with a 2yr warranty. Oh & it also includes VAT.


I know that you can replace the bearing & seal for a lot less but you still need to remove the gearbox to do this. Plus having the gearbox refurbished/reconditioned will give the owner, my niece, confidence that it will last the lifetime she will own the car.

Yea reconned boxes dont last
Ive had 4 recon boxes and they all failed....
Punto boxes are pure ****e tbh....
Alot of fiat boxes are too (m32 box is prone to failure too in the t-jets and m-jets :-(

My currently box is failing too and thays a recon box too...
Suspect input bearing
Gonna replace it in feburary


Ziggy

 

[digger58]

"Yea reconned boxes dont last
Ive had 4 recon boxes and they all failed....
Punto boxes are pure ****e tbh....
Alot of fiat boxes are too (m32 box is prone to failure too in the t-jets and m-jets :-("

If a gearbox is properly reconditioned it should be fine! If you've had 4 and they all failed I'd look at something else besides the gearbox!!!!!
I've had 3 Punto's and no real problems, I always change the oil when I get them. The only Fiat box that I have come across that is a bit weak is the X1/9, again a lot of the problems with that are from using the wrong oil which eats the syncro rings and a badly adjusted linkage which allows the reverse idler to get eaten.

 

[alan01256]

Apparently the refurbished/rebuilt gearbox includes the new, improved roller bearing instead of the old type ball bearing on the input shaft plus roller bearings in the rest of the box too, so it should last the time that my Niece will own the car.

 

[Charlieboy13]

I've noticed something similar with mine but its the opposite lol.

When I hold the clutch in, I'm getting a rattling noise?

Is this the clutch going or anything to do with the cable?

Noticed can be hard to get in reverse on cold mornings. Topped up fluids but still same?

 

[Ziggy122]

I've noticed something similar with mine but its the opposite lol.

When I hold the clutch in, I'm getting a rattling noise?

Is this the clutch going or anything to do with the cable?

Noticed can be hard to get in reverse on cold mornings. Topped up fluids but still same?

If your getting a Noise when the clutch is pressed
it sounds like the clutch release bearings dying
No cables on the Clutch - its hydraulic

Hard to find gears on a cold morning is not uncommon
the gearbox fluid is more viscous (thicker) and makes it harder to shift
Once warm it clears

Reverse hard to select is because its an Un syncromeshed gear set
if the gears aren't aligned - they run into each other and you cant select
Raise clutch - dip again, you should get reverse this time

If the cables are badly out of alignment - gear linkage wise
it may be the throw isn't far enough to actually select reverse easily

Ziggy

 

[Charlieboy13]

If your getting a Noise when the clutch is pressed
it sounds like the clutch release bearings dying
No cables on the Clutch - its hydraulic

Hard to find gears on a cold morning is not uncommon
the gearbox fluid is more viscous (thicker) and makes it harder to shift
Once warm it clears

Reverse hard to select is because its an Un syncromeshed gear set
if the gears aren't aligned - they run into each other and you cant select
Raise clutch - dip again, you should get reverse this time

If the cables are badly out of alignment - gear linkage wise
it may be the throw isn't far enough to actually select reverse easily

Ziggy

Thanks Ziggy, not sure why I said cable, I meant linkage lol. My dad thought release bearing too.

Appreciate your help Ziggy ?

 

[Ziggy122]

Thanks Ziggy, not sure why I said cable, I meant linkage lol. My dad thought release bearing too.

Appreciate your help Ziggy ?

If you do decide to tackle the job yourself
I seriously do advise getting yourself a clutch alignemtn tool (£20)
So that aligning the clutch is much easier

I found having an extra body to lift the box makes it 10X easier

Ziggy

 

[Charlieboy13]

If you do decide to tackle the job yourself
I seriously do advise getting yourself a clutch alignemtn tool (£20)
So that aligning the clutch is much easier

I found having an extra body to lift the box makes it 10X easier

Ziggy

Will def be doing it ourselves,I got myself a clutch kit ages ago but didn't think about the alignment.

Will see what I can find, do you recommend any specific alignment tool or will an ebay job do?

Thanks.

 

[Ziggy122]

Will def be doing it ourselves,I got myself a clutch kit ages ago but didn't think about the alignment.

Will see what I can find, do you recommend any specific alignment tool or will an ebay job do?

Thanks.

The Shaft style i use
Where you have a sliding bit that fits the friction plate nicely and then you screw on a tip that fits flywheel nicely
A layer of masking tape or 2 also helps remove slop and helps give a spot on alignment

if the clutch isn't aligned - it wont engage/allow the box to mate the engine

Remember to grease the shaft too - I Use a small Tube of LUK Clutch grease (was like £4)

it helps ensure smooth disengagement of the friction plate on the shaft

Ziggy

 

[Charlieboy13]

The Shaft style i use
Where you have a sliding bit that fits the friction plate nicely and then you screw on a tip that fits flywheel nicely
A layer of masking tape or 2 also helps remove slop and helps give a spot on alignment

if the clutch isn't aligned - it wont engage/allow the box to mate the engine

Remember to grease the shaft too - I Use a small Tube of LUK Clutch grease (was like £4)

it helps ensure smooth disengagement of the friction plate on the shaft

Ziggy

Thanks again Ziggy, will give it a go.

 

[Scudmonkey]

Couple of days ago my active sport developed a rather annoying noise. no problem selecting gear, and car pulled away OK and drove fine....however soon as you applied some throttle to accelerate or go up a hill there was a kinda screeching clicking noise. First thought was CV....
Today it let me know exactly what the problem was....soon as throttle applied Revs shot up car speed didn't increase (commonly known as a slipping clutch)...
My guess is the screeching clicking noise was one of the anti chatter springs was knacked, as it didnt sound like a Thrust bearing does when it goes.
I guess a year and a half of using car for my previous job finally caught up with the clutch, lot of Mileage (22000 in 16 months) and an awful lot of stop/start driving...good part is new job and mileage down to 7 miles a day now
Car already booked in for replacement (i know a Garage that is gonna do it cheap for me i.e. not sting me on labour costs) so will be sorted next week....meantime i have to use the missus Corsa

 

[Ziggy122]

If that 22,000 miles mostly motorway work - the clutch would be fine

But because its City work - Stop Start / Biting more cause of hills etc

It kills them

When i went to look at a few city cars (cars from the city) at like 50K alot of them had VERY VERY heavy clutchs.... and mine was at like 80K and it wasn't that heavy.... Mine had light town / Single country road use

Shows how enviroments are harder on certain things
I kinda appreciate why my work vans are auto's, Hella lot less wear and means we cant sit doing burn outs

Ziggy