Technical stop start not working

[adeverett]

3 trips over the past year but don't recall going over those rumble ramps before. Haven't checked the manual for a while, but there is an additional connection to the battery for the start stop, which if memory serves, you are warned to disconnect if charging the battery. Could it be that?

 

[K333fer]

That is called the ibs ( intelligent battery sensor ) have seen them blown from jump starts before there are Also loads of other peramiters that will stop it working ie door switch , seat belt switch , clutch switch etc and high power draw such as heated screen on , some manufactures won't even work if there is less than a minimum level of fuel in the tank !

 

[Most Easterly Pandas]

some manufactures won't even work if there is less than a minimum level of fuel in the tank !

Seems a bit silly, surely you want to save as much fuel as you can if you've not got any left

 

[K333fer]

Yeh isn't it , the list of things on a mini that will stop the stop start functioning is actually longer than the items that let it work !

 

[Red Van Man]

Re: Stop start not working

I'm all set to update all the software on mine tomorow night. (The joys of having main dealer kit at work).
Will see what options it brings up when am doing it.

Reviving an oldish thread - my (2014) Fiorino's Start/Stop was off by default, yellow light on the switch saying so and it remained that way. My 'new' Qubo, a 2012 MyLoaf has S/S and it's on by default. Keefer did you find if it can be switched round to be off as a norm? If so Ill get that done when it goes in for next service.

I had a problem on Monday where I'd turned it off going slowly in traffic down a dual carriageway and then a minute after I got a warning that the ASR wasn't operative and the Hill Hold was also non-operational. To reset I turned off the engine (cos that's what you do - right?) and attempted a restart (reboot in effect) DEAD.
There I was in rush hour, in the outside lane of a dual carriageway on the Ring Road and no action. To cut a long story longer, I called the AA. ETA 40-60 minutes. I had the hazards on and I then set to standing at the back of the car waving traffic away from my stranded car. The idiots who drove down that night - cuh.. I despair for humanity..
A security dog van pulled up and he protected my car and in his hi-vis jacket made sure the traffic avoided us both. He called the Police (again as I had too) and they came within 10 mins. V nice copper had a go at starting it but in vain. We went under the bonnet and took the lid off the fuse box deciding that with a list of error messages it would be electrical, a sensor or relay. He commiserated with me about the ridiculous contortions you have to do to remove the lid. Sacking offence that planning
Any road up, he pushed all the fuses and relays down firmly and I went back into the cab to see what happened. Moving the gear lever this time it clunked and into neutral - it started! He said he'd follow me to the motorway and he did for a while but then shot past me with the blues on but thanks to him (and the dog van) I have an intact car without another embedded in it.

I read the handbook when I got home. Something in there about pressing the brake pedal with the ignition on, for 7 seconds and then the car will start in Delayed Start mode (I did see that warning on the dash but had no idea what it meant). After that one has the ability to drive in up to 3rd gear. Now tell me Fiat boffins, if I moved to a safer place in that mode, then switched off and on again, would that clear the lame mode and revert me back to normal?
I sometimes wonder about the so-called advances that cars have made with the huge numbers of sensors and interdependence on one to another and how easy it is for something to fail an internal computer check which stuffs your drive.

My start/stop did its stuff a couple of times this morning and on the second time, I lost the ASR and HH yet again. This time I touched nothing! Eventually I called in to sort out van hire for Saturday at Europcar and when I started off again, all was normal. Hmm.

So the short request is, can S/S be set to 'off' by default please?

R-V-M
P.S. Fuse box lid is still off even after a 5 minute wrestle trying to get it back on.

 

[Qube O]

Re: Stop start not working

All things modern are great while they work, smartphones, LED televisions, cars, but when they go wrong....................!!

Need a degree in quantum physics......

Touch wood all of mine are o.k. at them moment, but at times I yearn for the simple designs..............

Qube O.

 

[K333fer]

I don't recall seeing anything in any menus for the stop start , as for you asr/hill hold problems I would expect to be seeing either a pedal switch or asr module pressure sensor fault

 

[austenw90]

After reporting this for the second time the dealer replaced my battery straight away. They said it had become faulty and wouldn't hold its charge.

 

[Red Van Man]

Re: Stop start not working

I don't recall seeing anything in any menus for the stop start , as for your asr/hill hold problems I would expect to be seeing either a pedal switch or asr module pressure sensor fault

Thanks for the info - is the battery charge thing an issue? I guess it needsd a fair amount of charge to be able to (annoyingly) have to fire up every time you stop.. After another do with the ASR/HH warning on the dash plus only being able to change up to 3rd gear last night (having disabled Start/Stop within 2 seconds of starting my journey) I found a safe lay-by and went through the ignition on (that's an issue in itself, why doesnt a Fiat have an accessory setting for e.g. having the radio on beyond 20 mins rather than Off or On only?) and pressed the brake [pedal for 7 seconds, turned off then restarted and it did work. I think now I won't disable the S/S as this seems to be when I have the ASR/HH and transmission warnings.

I have noticed that on this car, selecting an initial gear is more difficult than the Fiorino and I think it's because the brake lights come on a lot later than on the Fiorino, which I assume must be the adjustment of the switch.
Further assumption.. this switch is controlling the 'enable' for engaging a gear as it requires the pedal to be pressed to select 1 or R from stationary. Is this correct? If I moved the switch (not looked at the location but I guess above the pedal) back a bit so the switch operates with less travel that this would be the cure. Any ideas?

I feel I'll have to book it into the garage next door for some diagnostics - it's due to have the 20,000 service (at 24k now) although it had one at about 12k and another oil/filter change when I bought it at 19.8k. I see 'Service Coupon Expired' on start up..

R-V-M

 

[K333fer]

Re: Stop start not working

Thanks for the info - is the battery charge thing an issue? I guess it needsd a fair amount of charge to be able to (annoyingly) have to fire up every time you stop.. After another do with the ASR/HH warning on the dash plus only being able to change up to 3rd gear last night (having disabled Start/Stop within 2 seconds of starting my journey) I found a safe lay-by and went through the ignition on (that's an issue in itself, why doesnt a Fiat have an accessory setting for e.g. having the radio on beyond 20 mins rather than Off or On only?) and pressed the brake [pedal for 7 seconds, turned off then restarted and it did work. I think now I won't disable the S/S as this seems to be when I have the ASR/HH and transmission warnings.

I have noticed that on this car, selecting an initial gear is more difficult than the Fiorino and I think it's because the brake lights come on a lot later than on the Fiorino, which I assume must be the adjustment of the switch.
Further assumption.. this switch is controlling the 'enable' for engaging a gear as it requires the pedal to be pressed to select 1 or R from stationary. Is this correct? If I moved the switch (not looked at the location but I guess above the pedal) back a bit so the switch operates with less travel that this would be the cure. Any ideas?

I feel I'll have to book it into the garage next door for some diagnostics - it's due to have the 20,000 service (at 24k now) although it had one at about 12k and another oil/filter change when I bought it at 19.8k. I see 'Service Coupon Expired' on start up..

R-V-M

The battery has a thing called an ibs on top that monitors the voltage , I put a battery on a 500 with stop start the other day the factors were a bit sketchy on the fitment so went genuine ouch !!! You may well be able to whip the brake light switch out and reset it

 

[nedro018]

red-van-man/k333fer,

do you guys have links to a wiring diag for the S-S system? anyone else?

my 2013 fiorino with dualogic is coming to end of its 2 yr warranty (i live in turkey) in mid april. start stop pretty much hasnt worked from day 1 so i thought i would try to push the issue and get them to change my battery before the warr stopped. from my reviews in this forum, the inputs to the S-S system are batt voltage via the IBS sensor atop the battery (which from what ive read takes inputs from even door switches and the amount of fuel in the tank!), the state of the DPF being regen'd, and others.

i do admit that, as a retiree, i dont drive the car everyday. one time i didnt drive it for a week and 1/2 and the battery actually required a jump start which i did. i think that previously, K333fer said that jumpers cant kill the IBS and i didnt know this at the time. even so, how do you disconnect (disco) it? i dont see a wire going from the IBS to the battery to disco?

the turkish fiat dealer did (another) top-off charge on the battery...like the first time i took it in for this problem. which didnt fix it. in turkey, fiat HQ's actually remotes into the dealership diagnostic equipment and the factory engineers have a look for themselves before any parts are replaced under warranty. they said there's nothing wrong with this battery, were not replacing it and here's a printout of the battery report. they said your problem is you dont drive the car enough in stop-start style traffic...the ACIDIC levels (or lack thereof) inside the battery enable/disable the S-S system. they said the people who drive this car are usually commercial merchants doing maybe 100 stop-starts per day. this changes the acidic levels in the battery and makes the system WORK/NOT WORK. they said you, on the other hand, drive maybe 15 mi 1-way to your wife's mothers home via the high speed highway loop and while this charges the battery, it's not enough to enable S-S system (acidically internal to the battery).

some factors may have been lost in the translation but they seemed vehement in insisting it was not a battery voltage problem but a battery internal acidity level wasnt being maintained.

the turk dealers DO REPLACE parts under warr. last time i took it in for the S-S problem, another problem came up just 2 days before: a loud "clunk" could be heard/felt when going into reverse...only reverse no other gears. i mentioned this in passing to service rep because it only happened in last days and i hadnt done any research on it yet. turned out they straight-away replaced the "clutch/clutch servo" unit assembly inside the tranny and this involved removing the tranny. didnt sound $ cheap for them or time cheap. they just did it. the main problem i was there for was the 2nd S-S issue, but they performed the tranny repair pronto.

but they simply wont replace this battery so maybe they're right. i still would like to see a S-S wiring diagram? anyone have? thanks.

on a side note: my S-S sytem wont even turn off. upon turning the system "off" with the button and obtaining the amber light, the system still works. however, i get around it by pressing only lightly on the brake pedal at stop lights...not hard. the system will not engage.

i think the system is just poorly designed and with too many superfluous inputs but id like to see a wiring diagram if possible, and, to hear any other inputs from the experts here.

 

[K333fer]

You may have just hit the nail on the head by saying you have to push on the brake pedal lightly , the pedal switch isn't a on off switch as we know it its a position switch hence when you brake proper hard the hazards come on so it may not be set right I know if the vag ones aren't set right they will make the stability system play up

 

[nedro018]

k333fer, do you have this S-S wiring schematic? or access to any others? thx

 

[Most Easterly Pandas]

You may have just hit the nail on the head by saying you have to push on the brake pedal lightly , the pedal switch isn't a on off switch as we know it its a position switch hence when you brake proper hard the hazards come on so it may not be set right I know if the vag ones aren't set right they will make the stability system play up

Sorry, completely wrong though.

The brake switch is an on/off switch, and has no control over the hazzard flashing system under heavy breaking. Its the ABS system / body computer which controls that and activates when breaking speed is in excess of 7m/s(squared).

This is why they won't come on when hammering the brake when stationary, or below about 20MPH.

 

[Red Van Man]

red-van-man/k333fer,

<SNIP>

I think the system is just poorly designed and with too many superfluous inputs but I'd like to see a wiring diagram if possible and to hear any other inputs from the experts here.

Indeed - I second that. Far too much technical bosh that's unnecessary.

Latest thing I've discovered (the fault that led me to be stranded in the outside lane of a dual carriageway in rush-hour) is an overheating issue related to the transmission.

If you're in slow traffic (or me, maybe not you?) and crawling so that the infernal S-S sytem isn't coming on after the first annoying 'death', the engine is running and the car is creeping a bit at a time as you do in slow queues. Then you notice the warning triangle comes on, It tells you the Hill Hold has ceased working, the Start Stiop is now dead and the there's another one I've forgotten. probably Anti-Slip/Traction thingy.
You delete them with the Menu button - then the transmission warning comes on (flashing little red gearbox) and you can no longer go up over gear #3 . You curse of course, but nothing can be done. Don't be tempted turn off to reboot as it will not restart but give some non-understandable warning saying you have to refer to the Owners Manual (which will be at home) and there's some delayed start procedure to follow. WHAT use is that when you're out in the sticks or wherever??

I got round this the second time (not turning off) by keeping driving once the queue was easing and moving and after about 150 yards I was able to get into 4th and 5th gear, some cooling had taken place. Another time it happened I wound the fan up to max speed and opened the windows and that cooled it down.

Yet another occasion when it happened, (which is quite amazing for the situation) I was going down a long Derbyshire hill behind a very large gravel lorry (rigid not artic) who was too large for the road and was travelling at under 30 most of the way. The Dualogic box of course wouldn't let me go into 5th and that 1.5 miles or so of downhill was all done in 3rd and 4th. Then I got the warnings and max of 3rd gear as it was getting too hot again.

What stupid designer decided to put all this sh*te so-called technology into a car as simple as a Qubo should be? These guys take most of the fun or enjoyment out of motoring with their extras and add-ons and stupid under-the-bonnet things we only discover we have, when something decides to fail. Is it to cause frustration or generate revenue for the dealers? It certainly does the former!

Grrr. Anyone else suffered this overheat thing?

R-V-M

 

[2668GRIFFIN]

I'm glad i've got the 1st gen version, no dpf, no stop start, no anti slip ect ect
LUIGI

 

[nedro018]

R-V-M,

thanks. your issues may be beyond start-stop system issues. like you, i have a 2013 dualogic tranny.

in 2014 (exactly 1 year after bought the car) i changed the oil ahead of manf standards using fiat brand oil filter and the fiat equivalent castrol C4 spec oil, the equivalent of fiat's C4 brand (and probably superior because it has the oil molecule technology that lets oil molecules stick to engine surfaces during "stop-start" conditions within high traffic). oil in turkey is VERY expensive and the dealer is likewise FURTHER expensive and i know how to change oil and know about minding oil specs for motors. this was the first car i bought new...after initial breakin phase i wanted that factory dose of new engine oil "outta there quickley" and the filter as well. so i changed it. @ 3800 miles

"(the fault that led me to be stranded in the outside lane of a dual carriageway in rush-hour) is an overheating issue related to the transmission"

ive never had any related such faults and as i recall, were using the same castrol C4 spec oil because i read this before in your posts.

can trannies in fact overheat? i thought engines did...but do trannies? if the tranny had a heat sensor in it and it went off, but the engine (which has ALOT more sensors than the tranny) was normal in its temps indications, this seems your tranny is low on oil maybe? how can a tranny overheat without its brother the engine overheating? unless some unit in the tranny is defective?

your post:
"I got round this the second time (not turning off) by keeping driving once the queue was easing and moving and after about 150 yards I was able to get into 4th and 5th gear, some cooling had taken place. Another time it happened I wound the fan up to max speed and opened the windows and that cooled it down"

and this one:
"Yet another occasion when it happened, (which is quite amazing for the situation) I was going down a long Derbyshire hill behind a very large gravel lorry (rigid not artic) who was too large for the road and was travelling at under 30 most of the way. The Dualogic box of course wouldn't let me go into 5th and that 1.5 miles or so of downhill was all done in 3rd and 4th. Then I got the warnings and max of 3rd gear as it was getting too hot again"

this leads me to believe that your dualogic clutch control box may be defective as mine was (read above in my post for this free (otherwise expensive repair by dealership). if your unit is having problems shifting gears (errr...restricting oil flow thru dualogic shifting solenoids restricting oil flow = extra heat!) then the tranny is going to heat up, tripping heat sensors (if present in tranny?) and shut down other systems, like stop start.

when i brought my car in to the dealership for the 2nd stop start incident, i was trying to get them to replace the battery under warranty because i had read here that the IBS sensor was/could be (K333per) main culprit in S-S issues.

in this same 2nd visit, the turk service dept immediately replaced the "clutch servo assembly" device when i complained of loud noises going into only reverse gear.

could it be your "clutch servo assembly" unit is also defective? inside the clutch/tranny? and that this might be causing the overheat and triggering the other malfunctions?

 

[K333fer]

k333fer, do you have this S-S wiring schematic? or access to any others? thx

No afraid not and as people seem to like to treat me like an idiot and I know sod all im out sorry , I've only been doing it for 26 years but hey ho,

 

[2668GRIFFIN]

No afraid not and as people seem to like to treat me like an idiot and I know sod all im out sorry , I've only been doing it for 26 years but hey ho,

A bit harsh pal, i've been doing my job 35 years and still learning, sometimes the obvious smacks you in the face and you still don't see it.
I think the way to go is take on board what people say, and look at things from a different perspective.
no disrespect meant
LUIGI

 

[Qube O]

I'm with 2668 GRIFFIN, Mines a 2009, no fancy stuff like the newer ones, thank heavens. I'm afraid, I would not buy a new car now, because of all the stuff I don't want. So my last new car, current Qube, is here to stay...........for a long, long time.