Technical Stilo 1.6 5 speed to 6 speed

[TheBlackRazor]

Ciao guys!

Searching across the deep stuff in this forum (mostly pre-2016), I came across a thread describing the differences among Stilo gearboxes.

I know the Stilo 1.2 and 1.4 both use the C514 6 speed and that the 1.6 model uses the C514R 5 speed gearbox.

What has crossed my mind several times now, is that both gearboxes are very, very similar (both have the reverse gear far down right and you need to pull the knob in order to engage the reverse). But the bell housing itself is very different as it features the starter motor on the other side (if I'm not mistaken). It looks very similar to the one fitted on the Fiat Punto GT and Fiat Bravo/Brava 1.6 16V (later models).

So the question is: has anyone actually tried and succeeded to transplant the 6 speed internals onto a "classic" 5 speed C514R? I know a lot of people would like to use the longer 6th gear for highway cruising at higer RPM while maintaining good acceleration with the lower gears. The C514 6 speed also doesn't seem to be plagued with the dreadful diff pin failure that is the cause for many many gearbox failures on the 1.6's.

Any info of you doing this or someone you know will be very helpful!

 

[Yellow Peril]

If you achieved it, I'm sure you would be the first! The closest I got was finding out that a six speed manual was fitted to the Lancia Thesis which also had the 5-cylinder 2.4 engine, so might be compatible with the Stilo Abarth models...

 

[TheBlackRazor]

Yes, the Lancia Thesis 2.4 20V Benzina had a 6 speed manual gearbox which is the C530 6 speed. Greek folks have managed to put it onto their Stilo Abarths (with some modifications I suppose).

The issue with the Stilo 1.6 engine is that it is the oldest among the Stilo line. It is essentially an evolution of the FIAT SOHC engine. That's why the bell housing looks almost the same with the gearboxes fitted in the late 80's FIAT Uno and later Punto GT's.

I am sure that if you heavily mod the C514R stock gearbox, there WILL be a way to make it work.

 

[TheBlackRazor]

That's the elearn info I found online for the gearboxes.

INTRODUCTION - GEARBOX - Fiat - STILO - eLearn - 4CarData

 

[Yellow Peril]

I think the main issue will be one of physical space. With the 5-cyl engine it's pretty tight down there! In fact if you inspect the inner n/s wheel arch you'll find the 5-cyl has a hole cut out of the bodywork to allow even the five-speed gearbox to fit. So unless the 6-speed has the same size casing, I doubt there would be room.

 

[TheBlackRazor]

My point is to somehow retrofit a 6-speed C514 (from Stilo 1.2/1.4 or Punto) to the Stilo 1.6 bell housing. I know the situation with the 5-cyl but I'm not talking about that.

Some folks had said that a 53 plate UK Stilo 1.6 had a 6 speed? Do we know if this came from the factory like that or it was modded somehow?

 

[Yellow Peril]

Never heard of that. I believe the 6-speed was only fitted to the smaller engined Stilo.

 

[franco66]

So, I'm in the US and picked up a 2012 500 Sport with a bad motor and a manual transmission. Swapped the motor and got it running, but the odd thing is, it seems to have 6 gears. I have no idea if it's the original transmission, but I do know it looks identical to a C514-5.

 

[TheBlackRazor]

If it looks identical to C514.5 but has 6 gears then it is the C514.6. Does it have the 1.2L engine?

 

[csomar]

If it looks identical to C514.5 but has 6 gears then it is the C514.6. Does it have the 1.2L engine?

Are you still interested?

 

[TheBlackRazor]

Interested in what? You replied to the wrong person. I already know it is doable to make the 5 speed unit a 6 speed one but you need to strip the internal parts. If I find both gearboxes (from 1.4 16v Stilo and another one from a 1.6 16v 103hp Stilo) I will do it on the bench. Currently my Stilo is my daily driver and I don't plan to mess with it. 338k km on the clock and still climbing.

 

[csomar]

Interested in what? You replied to the wrong person. I already know it is doable to make the 5 speed unit a 6 speed one but you need to strip the internal parts. If I find both gearboxes (from 1.4 16v Stilo and another one from a 1.6 16v 103hp Stilo) I will do it on the bench. Currently my Stilo is my daily driver and I don't plan to mess with it. 338k km on the clock and still climbing.

I replied exactly to you, because I do the same job at these weekends. I bought the 1.6 and the 1.2 gearboxes, just as you plan and started to rebuild one 6 speed from the two for a 1.6 16V engine. I can share my observations if you need.

 

[csomar]

Almost done.

 

[Maxcaddy]

Almost done.

If you do it and it works, and if the Bell housing pattern were to match the 2.4 Abarth, then I certainly would be interested in hearing what needs doing and what other parts, other than the 2 g/boxes, are needed.

 

[csomar]

If you do it and it works, and if the Bell housing pattern were to match the 2.4 Abarth, then I certainly would be interested in hearing what needs doing and what other parts, other than the 2 g/boxes, are needed.

That's a different story.
This C514 gearbox was used only with Fire engines and in some cases with the mentioned 1.6 16V engine. And it's quite a light gearbox.
Your 2.4 engine is paired with the strongest one at that time, which was the C530 type. The question is, what version is your Stilo? If Selespeed, you can't do anything with it. If the manual GT, then the Lancia Thesis 2.4 20V or 2.0 20Vt 6 speed gearboxes can be used. There is a difference at the power plant suspensions below, so the differential cover should be swapped. Although it's unfelicitous but no other way.

 

[Maxcaddy]

For what I would like, my easiest option would be to fit larger tyres say 225/55 x 17, which is a mod that I've done in the past to other cars with great effect and little or no loss. Unfortunately as I keep the car in France, and it has to have their version of an MoT (Control Technique), they get quite upset if items such as tyres are changed from the manufacturers spec. Okay I could get around it by having 2 sets of wheels, but all in all for the use and mileage I put it to it's really not worth the effort.

My interest was that if my (manual) g/box were to fail in the future, what alternatives could I use rather than scrapping the car.

 

[csomar]

Except Stilo only Lancia Thesis was built with Modular petrol engines combined with C530 gearbox. And before Lancia Kappa/Alfa 166/Fiat Coupé, but those are more different.