Hi moodrater,
you are quite busy on this forum, aren't you? Thanks for your distinct answer.
Thanks to CrossingKeeper as well.
Well, I think this answer is that of a true Fiat professional; I, as an amateur in screwing cars, fed up being ripped of by dumb-as-bread or lying bastards of car mechanics, was suspecting, that the symptoms that I mentioned would take an educated professional in a straight line to the solution.
I, myself, had to spend hours with a multitester to check out all the wires, that was deliberately undocumented by Fiat (What would be a no-go in the US, where automobile manufacturers mandatorially have to disclose the technical documentation.) I admit, I found the failure hours after my survey, having come to the conclusion that neither this forum would help me in a timely manner, neither any of those 'businesmen' I interviewed.
So, I would like to express something
- first about the technical solution,
- second about the Fiat business model compared to other automobile manufacturer's business models from a customer perspective with an excourse on your answer.
So first, technical solution: there is indeed a common cause of both the engine failure and the headlights failure. It's the black wire coming out of the ignition lock. There are two wires which should have potential when switched on, one is blue-black, the other one is black. blue-black switches everything else, while black switches the cockpit lights, engine and headlight appliances. The third is red for the starter. My workaround was to cut black and bridge fron blue-black to the engine wires, until I find an honest mech whom I can trust to mount a new ingnition lock (10 mins, 50€ material) IF THERE IS ONE AVAILABLE FROM THAT ****ING FIAT SUPPLY, which is cut off only ten years after the model is abandoned.
Leaving aside that the docs are withheld by Fiat, the reason I did not recognize this just the first time I looked at the ignition lock before my first posting could be counted on me, because I mistook the black wire as 'ground', which was the reading on my multitester. On the other hand, Fiat had been going against the convention that BLACK allways means GROUND. :bang: So after some strenuous thinking, it came to me that there should be no need for a ground wire on the ignition lock, so it was dead.
There is no way that an experienced mechanic with medium mental faculties can miss that single point of failure from my description, and your kind hint proves that.
The Fiat business model from a customer perspective: It seems to be Fiat's policy to feed their dedicated workshops by withholding of technical information and artificial retirement by spare part cut off to induce new sales and repair business. (This makes Fiat one of the worst choices for long-lived vehicles like campervans, where the body is much more worth than the chassis and engine together. I would never ever buy a Fiat camper again.)
Most of the workshops blend well into that business model. Exploits that I was subjected to by Fiat workshops where
- charging unnecessary diagnosis cost (like CrossingKeeper said, if there are no docs you need a 'good mech', who needs hours and hours to check the wires on your expense),
- implanting failures (my v-belt broke; a chief mech told me I needed a new generator; I ordered the v-belt changed; as I watched while they worked, they could not demage my generator, so they loosened the D+ line to make me come back; my generator is fine after 20tkm more now; in situ, they sabotaged my cooler by overfastenig a hose clamp and overfilling, so it broke 100km later (how would you proove?) ) and
- overcharging of spare parts (they bought the only available spare part on the aftermarket and wanted to sell it to me at 500% which was ~€700 while my car was stranded in their workshop; I know because I tried to by the part from the dealer, learning that they bought it 20 mins. before telling me their price).
So, moodrater, please let me talk back to you as well.
Yes, I was questioning their integrity, and most of them proved to be loyal to the Fiat business model, but most failed to show their integrity with their customer.
When it comes to their expertise, how should I differentiate if those guys are dumb like **** or lying bastards (with the exception of the secretary, who is both)?
And, if you might read my post again benevolently, I was not ROFLing about their wish to bring my camper in, it was soleley about the secretary who betrayingly and pitiful played competent missing the fact that there is no such thing as a diagnosis plug in a 1992 diesel Fiat. BTW, the only shop that told me about the ignition lock could not take my camper in because they where booked for 4 weeks. I guess they will change my lock, then, and I will pay an honest price.
If it comes to the documentation: thank you for fully supporting my position. If you allready know that wiring, most failures are simple to find. If you don't, you need a diagram or a lot of time. So it hits me as a customer if I want to fix it myself or the mech hasn't seen the model ever (BTW, if you can profoundly read a diagram, you should allways be faster reading than crawling through a car's intestines.)
Your answer prooves that my description was sufficient to point out the failure, and it prooves also the incompetence or betraying intent of those guys. About the 45 views I had up to then: how many of them follow the Fiat business model and just try to postpone or deviate me to their own workshops instead of honestly answering like you do?
It is not charity to serve a customer with competence, but it is fraud to shake him out with incompetence and the methods described above.
Comparision to other business models: I have had several cars with a star, you know which. I had them repaired and I repaired them myself. There was never a situation where an original spare was missing, even with a 30 year old truck. All dedicated workshops I asked for help every time told me straight out what was the problem, what would be the cost, and sold me the parts I needed; if I was broke, standing in front of their counter, they even directly pointed me to the aftermarket if possible. They even gave me detailed advice on critical repair procedures, like on brakes or injection pumps, and were kind enough to check if it was done right by me afterwards for free.
Another example: I had the generator of another Fiat camper fixed at a free workshop. Because I was stranded. Though beeing booked for weeks, they shoved me in for a quick fix, got a matching spare with 5 times the power of the original, same size and half the price, fixed all that in 3 hours flat while I was surfing on their free convenience WLAN (having free cookies and coffee served) and charged me 45 mins. + the part's cost price. And they shure where just as happy about the deal as I was. Interesting thing: I could watch them working, precise, efficient and quick, and they sure had so much fun! So it was even fun to pay them with gratitude.
Don't tell me these are a charity!
This one is my last Fiat.
