Solve a mystery for me

[AnthonyH]

The mystery is this...my wife tells a story about her 97 plate Citroen saxo. She was driving on a dual carriageway at circa 50 mph when the brakes locked on and seized causing her to come to a screeching halt. The car was in a garage 2 weeks beforehand and she blames them for something unknown. This happened before we met so I don't have any first hand information. It didn't result in any injury to her but was potentially deadly.

So what do you think happened? I'll relay whatever you say because it might jog her memory for extra information.

 

[varesecrazy]

The mystery is this...my wife tells a story about her 97 plate Citroen saxo. She was driving on a dual carriageway at circa 50 mph when the brakes locked on and seized causing her to come to a screeching halt. The car was in a garage 2 weeks beforehand and she blames them for something unknown. This happened before we met so I don't have any first hand information. It didn't result in any injury to her but was potentially deadly.

So what do you think happened? I'll relay whatever you say because it might jog her memory for extra information.

One wheel would be a friction lining coming away and locking ONE BRAKE

Several wheels?
Well it Is French

 

[AnthonyH]

She just said it skidded forward to a stop without swerving. So that must be 2 brakes or all 4?

 

[varesecrazy]

She just said it skidded forward to a stop without swerving. So that must be 2 brakes or all 4?

Rear COULD still track fairly straight..

Either way.. 14 days after work seems too long

 

[AnthonyH]

Shes tentatively agreed 2 weeks is too long for a garage to be responsible.

 

[AndyRKett]

Shes tentatively agreed 2 weeks is too long for a garage to be responsible.

She pressed the brake accidentally instead of the clutch or gas pedal? That’s the ‘most likely cause’ but I suspect she won’t go for that.

If the car had ABS it is theoretically possible, though extremely unlikely that the ABS is capable of applying the brakes to all 4 wheels without anyone touching the pedal.

Circa 2006/7, when I was still an electronics engineer, I remember reading an article where someone had hacked a car’s ABS system to be able to electronically slam on the brakes and cause an accident. Using a device attached to the OBD port, so a possibility if your wife was involved in international espionage around that time.

 

[AnthonyH]

She pressed the brake accidentally instead of the clutch or gas pedal? That’s the ‘most likely cause’ but I suspect she won’t go for that.

If the car had ABS it is theoretically possible, though extremely unlikely that the ABS is capable of applying the brakes to all 4 wheels without anyone touching the pedal.

Circa 2006/7, when I was still an electronics engineer, I remember reading an article where someone had hacked a car’s ABS system to be able to electronically slam on the brakes and cause an accident. Using a device attached to the OBD port, so a possibility if your wife was involved in international espionage around that time.

She just said the brakes were totally locked, and after she came to a stop she couldn't drive the car. So she tried to drive on but couldn't and then had to call the AA.

The AA took her back to the last garage she used and then they charged her for repair work she can't remember. With a value she calls "lots" without a number.

She's also said as a lone female she was open to exploitation.

It really does sound like the hacking you've described is a credible explanation. But there will of course be other possible causes. It's saddening to think that potentially deadly hacking of this kind was used, even if that wasn't the case this time.

 

[rmjbn1]

I'd agree with Charlie, a rear brake shoe lining coming adrift and locking a rear wheel is the only thing that makes any sense to me.

Unless she had a hot version VTR / VTS? These were the only Saxos with ABS (and rear discs) I think.

I've had rear calipers stick on, both from rusty pistons and from seized handbrake.

But they just rub and get very hot. And a seized handbrake would be stuck on from departure.

Same with front discs, hard to imagine anything that would come on and lock the wheels suddenly.

I don't think the garage can be blamed. Just one of those unfortunate things. Must have been quite alarming for her, but good that nobody was hurt.

 

[AndyRKett]

It really does sound like the hacking you've described is a credible explanation. But there will of course be other possible causes. It's saddening to think that potentially deadly hacking of this kind was used, even if that wasn't the case this time.

I did say this tongue in cheek.

It does need someone with a high level of skills and would levied only against someone with a very good reason. Not someone your loyal garage would have been doing to anyone at any time, so whatever the reason it almost certainly was not due to someone hacking her car

There is probably a fairly high likelihood the saxo would not have had ABS depending on which model she had

 

[vexorg]

Must have been a prototype collision avoidance, always love when the nissan one decides a shadow is a car and slam on the brakes - though the newer one isn't anywhere as bad as the first.

 

[AnthonyH]

She says her saxo was small engine, so it didn't have ABS, phew the sophisticated conspiracy theory is ruled out lol

After reading this I did Google and found the real hacking described. They could send a radio signal to the car at any time to trigger the ABS to lock on.

To say she describes it as her loyal garage could also be tongue in cheek lol. It was a Leeds city garage and the mechanics were in her words 3 strange brothers and their stranger relatives. Amongst the strange things they did were cleaning her car, leaving her thinking they didn't fix it. And they left chocolate in her car. Nominally this sounds like good customer service but she recounted the memories with too much vivid memory for me to think this is the case. And she's still convinced they did something.

So the rear shoes breaking and jamming is looking to be likely cause. Or brake discs failing. I need to look up brakes failure modes as a matter of interest.

 

[vexorg]

She says her saxo was small engine, so it didn't have ABS, phew the sophisticated conspiracy theory is ruled out lol

They do list abs sensors for all saxo models, including the 1.0 engine.
But they never fail that way, and agree that she stomped on the brake instead of clutch.

 

[rmjbn1]

phew the sophisticated conspiracy theory is ruled out lol

No too late we've decided your wife is involved in international espionage and nothing can convince us otherwise now

 

[AnthonyH]

No too late we've decided your wife is involved in international espionage and nothing can convince us otherwise now

Ahhh yes, that's far more interesting lol.

Her code name is Mandy 007.

She has a licence to drive a punto

She likes her hot chocolate shaken not stirred.

 

[porta]

Leeds you say, so was it Fletchers as that’s a weird family (I worked their for a while). Or was it the independent one between Armley/Wortley, that was an even weirder family affair (they were actually quite knowledgeable and would also fit second hand/scrapper sourced parts)

 

[AnthonyH]

She says they were Italian, in the centre but in a back street. Does that help?

Any interesting stories from your time?

 

[porta]

She says they were Italian, in the centre but in a back street. Does that help?

Any interesting stories from your time?

Americo Motors, Italian ‘specialists’ that were also ‘infamous’ for sticking Porsche engines in beetles
I believe they’re still there
Many fine tales that I wouldn’t put into print!

 

[porta]

Yup, still there

https://maps.app.goo.gl/fu9iD9X1sNzQGJCP8?g_st=ic

 

[AnthonyH]

Americo Motors, Italian ‘specialists’ that were also ‘infamous’ for sticking Porsche engines in beetles
I believe they’re still there
Many fine tales that I wouldn’t put into print!

We were just googling and found them too, so snap!

Treat us to just one tame tale then?