Technical Scratching clutch....

[AnthonyH]

You're right it gives the same part number for the driveshaft seal each side.

Sorry, I've been talking rubbish then. I hadn't realised the Punto EVO was so different to the GP, and assumed they used the same gearbox (as used in Panda & 500). Apologies for causing confusion :-/

I wasn't saying you'd confused me, i understood they were the same both sides without issue, you've been very helpful.

To identify what i think is the right seal i've had to watch a youtube video were they guy holds one up to the camera, and then i've cross referenced that with ebay pictures. Whats confusing is ebays "confirm this item fits" option, which says they fit and they don't fit at the same time...

For example the part is here but supposedly it doesn't fit if i use their "confirm this fits" option.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/335794119896

I also don't fully trust myself to identify Fiat part numbers from ePER lol.

 

[GrandePunto PL]

1. What engine? If it's simple petrol (1,2 1,4 8V 16V, non turbo, not multiair) Grande and EVO are the same (C514 gearbox - gear ratios may differ, but parts are interchangeable). What's "different" there?

2. Have you seen a Guide (axle seals)? It's an easy job. Oil can leak also from the gear selector above (above the short axle).
https://www.fiatforum.com/guides/axle-shaft-oil-seal-replacement-1-4-8v.797/

3. Input shaft seal for C514 family. I did mine years ago. It's a hard, tight press-fit (harder than regular seals - like axles etc.).

4. Your EPER link on the previous page was for 1,3 Diesel... Watch out.

5. Service manual for C514 (5 speed) family...

 

[AnthonyH]

1. What engine? If it's simple petrol (1,2 1,4 8V 16V, non turbo, not multiair) Grande and EVO are the same (C514 gearbox - gear ratios may differ, but parts are interchangeable). What's "different" there?
2. Have you seen a Guide (axle seals)? It's an easy job. Oil can leak also from the gear selector above (above the short axle).
https://www.fiatforum.com/guides/axle-shaft-oil-seal-replacement-1-4-8v.797/
3. Input shaft seal for C514 family. I did mine years ago. It's a hard, tight press-fit (harder than regular seals - like axles etc.).
View attachment 460398
View attachment 460399

Thanks for the reply;

1) The engine is a 1.4L 8V, nothing complicated really. Very reliable usually!

2) I've had a look. It appears that the left and right seals are different, only a little, but i'm not surprised. I need the left so the dimensions from your guide say (36x56x10/13,5).

3) If i'm lucky the gearbox won't have to come off, so i'm going to wait and see, certainly that looks difficult to understand.

4) You are correct, so i'm back to not knowing which seal to buy lol, apologies to @rmjbn1, you thought you'd confused me, but in reality it was the other way around! My ePER link was wrong. The link below is for the 1.4L 8V gearbox, but there's now no seal there?! I'll try to find them with the dimensions and part numbers given in the linked guide noted above.

21207/10 - GEARING AND STUD JOINTING

FIAT PUNTO EVO (2009-2011)

eper.fiatforum.com

5) I've bookmarked this, its a fine manual.

​

 

[rmjbn1]

Phew, that looks more familiar! Thought it was strange they would change it!
I did mine last year, bit fiddly in situ but OK.
I make the part numbers for the driveshaft seals 40005030 & 40004620

Numbers 3&4 in the drawing here:

21220/10 - GEARING AND HALF CRANKSHAFT

FIAT PUNTO EVO (2009-2011)

eper.fiatforum.com

 

[GrandePunto PL]

 

[AnthonyH]

Thanks both!

I had another look at the leak this morning, I wanted to double check the deposited oil above the driveshaft but on the gearbox, to check the gearbox seal. It is dirty there, but the oil appears old. So i'm about 90% sure it is the driveshaft seal.

I've ordered the seal, it should arrive via the royal mail 24 hour service, so Wednesday/Thursday.

 

[AnthonyH]

I filled the gearbox up today in the hope that this would fix the noise when i depress the clutch, but it didn't. So the clutch needs replacing as i originally thought. I'll start that later in the week.

 

[rmjbn1]

If it's run low on oil I would suspect the input shaft bearing might be toast as a result.

Stick a finger in this hole on the bell housing:

It'll be filthy. Dry OK, wet and oily means the input shaft bearing has had it. Can do damage to the internals if the bearing breaks up.

 

[AnthonyH]

If it's run low on oil I would suspect the input shaft bearing might be toast as a result.

Stick a finger in this hole on the bell housing:
View attachment 460507
It'll be filthy. Dry OK, wet and oily means the input shaft bearing has had it. Can do damage to the internals if the bearing breaks up.

I just had a look in the bell housing and it is bone dry. I haven't had any difficulty changing gears previously so fingers crossed i've caught the gearbox in time.

The bell housing cover is next to the clutch slave, i can see the slave is original and didn't look so healthy. It moved in and out OK, but the rubber bushes it sits on weren't good, and it has a plastic end part that didn't look so good either. So my question is....

Could a failing clutch slave causes the kind of scratching slipping noise in the video i uploaded in post #5?

Is it worth a punt on fitting a new clutch slave prior to replacing the clutch?

 

[rmjbn1]

When the slave fails its usually the seals inside start leaking so it doesn't fully extend (except when they stick and clutch doesn't release, but not relevant here).

Any sign of a leak on the slave?

Here's a video of how far the slave should move. If it's extending fully then probably not faulty:

Clutch pedal not working after clutch replacement. | FIAT Panda (Mk3)

Hello everyone, I have an issue with my fiat Panda 1.2 Dynamic and would like to know if someone has experienced something similar and how to fix it. My car needs the clutch replaced and I am doing the fitting myself. The issue I've got is that after replacing the clutch, the clutch pedal...

www.fiatforum.com

 

[AnthonyH]

When the slave fails its usually the seals inside start leaking so it doesn't fully extend (except when they stick and clutch doesn't release, but not relevant here).

Any sign of a leak on the slave?

Here's a video of how far the slave should move. If it's extending fully then probably not faulty:

Clutch pedal not working after clutch replacement. | FIAT Panda (Mk3)

Hello everyone, I have an issue with my fiat Panda 1.2 Dynamic and would like to know if someone has experienced something similar and how to fix it. My car needs the clutch replaced and I am doing the fitting myself. The issue I've got is that after replacing the clutch, the clutch pedal...

www.fiatforum.com

Thanks for the info. I just compared the extension on the clutch slave of this Punto EVO to that of my Grande Punto (they're very similar if not the same slave). Its dark and not ideal measuring conditions but the extensions lengths were about the same. I'm sure there is no leak and the clutch doesn't stick, so I think i've exhausted all avenues except - changing the clutch. Which with any luck I can start on Wednesday. I'm looking forward to it! But the grazed knuckles and frustration of removing rusted bolts will temper that somewhat lol.

 

[GrandePunto PL]

Slave cylinders can leak/seep while doing full stroke, so claims above are not true (until it's a really bad leak, catastrophic seal breach).

 

[puntodad19]

Master cylinders can leak also, internally and externally, but since car has done over 100k on oe clutch.......

When engine warm and clutch noisey at engine idle, make car safe so you can look underneath, and slightly push slave cylinder piston rod back into the cylinder, so that the clutch fork and release bearing retract slightly. does noise disappear because the release bearing is not touch the pressure plate fingers and rotating ?????

If your gunna replace the clutch your self, research research research.....and make absolutely sure the car is safe when the front is up in the air.

Remember to slacken all tight nuts/bolts before you loose the brakes......

I assume you have the shaft oil seals and the gear selector shaft seal and boot etc. etc. etc.......

Your gear box was run very low on oil ???

 

[AnthonyH]

Remember to slacken all tight nuts/bolts before you loose the brakes......

This may have been the case, lol, nothing like wasting time, the wheels are off now, the gearbox emptied again, and a control arm loosened. I spent a fair amount of time finding tools!

I assume you have the shaft oil seals and the gear selector shaft seal and boot etc. etc. etc.......

I have a drive shaft seal, what is the gear selector shaft seal and boot?

 

[puntodad19]

The gear selector shaft and boot is passing some oil on the lads Punto ending up near/over the n/s gearbox box end drive joint.

That drive shaft seal may also be leaking a bit but we check g/box oil level ever month topping up a required. Only a few pumps from a pump oil can.

See one of my recent threads about parts, esystem ??

Eas on real computer earlier, now back on internet phone and running out of signal and credit .

 

[AnthonyH]

The gear selector shaft and boot is passing some oil on the lads Punto ending up near/over the n/s gearbox box end drive joint.

That drive shaft seal may also be leaking a bit but we check g/box oil level ever month topping up a required. Only a few pumps from a pump oil can.

See one of my recent threads about parts, esystem ??

Eas on real computer earlier, now back on internet phone and running out of signal and credit .

I've found a guide which shows the gear shift seal, this being the cause of my leak is a definite possibility. I should be able to get the drive shaft off that side tomorrow and inspect the seal. I'll know then if i'm going to need the guide below. Thanks for the info.

Guide: Renewing a gear shifter seal

My Grande Punto 2008 1,2 gear box looked like this: I thought that drive shaft seal was leaking but I was advised it probably was a gear shift seal leak. It actually was the case: I ordered a new seal from eBay (30 €). Replacing an old seal...

www.fiatforum.com

Edit: I had a better look at the leak area today and it is lower down under the axle shaft, the gear shifter seal after a better look at this guide seems to be too high up. I'll check again tomorrow though.

 

[AnthonyH]

I'm currently struggling to remove the first axle. I've been watching the video below and at timestamp 4:30 he makes it look so easy. It probably is easy if you've removed them before, but I haven't! I don't have the right technique, my flat chisel is too small and i'm worried about damaging the axle.

Any thoughts?

 

[GrandePunto PL]

Details like that make the difference between lame/hack and the real mechanic. Dexterity. You develop "the feel" for certain mechanisms.
The "C" clip must be oriented proper way, "clocked", then you must select the right tool (not just any chisel, screwdriver) and make an "impact" motion.
Try to turn the axle a bit (30-45 degrees) and try again to disengage it. If it's still stubborn, turn more and so on. It should finally pop out.
Look at the Guide again. How many tools it required to pop the axles (5-6 attempts and only one style/size of the big screwdriver worked).

Watch out during installation too. C-clip can be damaged if not clocked optimally.

A dab of thick grease will help too (to center it).

A few more tricks like this and suddenly you have no problems during car's service. Everything can be removed and installed back without damage.

 

[puntodad19]

hi gp, which "lever" did you use that worked please, the blue on ??

 

[GrandePunto PL]

There are green dots on the picture, look closely. First 2 screwdrivers worked. Job on the ground (car very low), no lift etc. So there was no space to take a swing with a hammer/mallet. Therefore "prybar/crowbar" method (massive screwdriver as a pry bar).

PS
When in doubt, do not reuse the C-clips if they are worn, deformed. Buy proper automotive part (Fiat number 46533000), do not substitute it with random clips just because you can find similar looking one.