Technical Rear crank seal leak now reverse gear grinding while engaging

[diddydee]

Hi all I have a 2014 1.2 fiat Punto two years ago I had a rear crank seal leak so had it replaced and the clutch done at the same time however it seems to have developed another leak from the rear crank seal as I noticed a few drops of oil after parking up took it to Kwik fit as my mate works there so he looked underneath and thought it was leaking from the sump so I booked it in with my mechanic who only deals with fiats and alfas to get the sump replaced only to receive a phone call saying it was leaking from the rear crank seal surely not after around 20k I thought but I've been keeping an eye on it and it's not losing massive amounts but now reverse gear is grinding when trying to engage not an issue when engine is off only when it's been running and it's probably happening 2 out of ten times could the oil leak even though it seems minor could it have contaminated my clutch thanks for any advice the car also had a refurbed gearbox around the same time

 

[bugsymike]

Hi all I have a 2014 1.2 fiat Punto two years ago I had a rear crank seal leak so had it replaced and the clutch done at the same time however it seems to have developed another leak from the rear crank seal as I noticed a few drops of oil after parking up took it to Kwik fit as my mate works there so he looked underneath and thought it was leaking from the sump so I booked it in with my mechanic who only deals with fiats and alfas to get the sump replaced only to receive a phone call saying it was leaking from the rear crank seal surely not after around 20k I thought but I've been keeping an eye on it and it's not losing massive amounts but now reverse gear is grinding when trying to engage not an issue when engine is off only when it's been running and it's probably happening 2 out of ten times could the oil leak even though it seems minor could it have contaminated my clutch thanks for any advice the car also had a refurbed gearbox around the same time

I would check the oil to see if it smells / looks like engine oil from the rear main or gear oil from the gearbox first motion shaft seal which is where I would say most likely to get on the clutch side.

 

[diddydee]

I would check the oil to see if it smells / looks like engine oil from the rear main or gear oil from the gearbox first motion shaft seal which is where I would say most likely to get on the clutch side.

Definitely smells and feels like engine oil mechanic only works on fiats and alfas he said rear crank seal maybe the last guy didn't fit it correctly last time doesn't help I'm not entirely sure how long it's been leaking as it's not a massive leak

 

[bugsymike]

Definitely smells and feels like engine oil mechanic only works on fiats and alfas he said rear crank seal maybe the last guy didn't fit it correctly last time doesn't help I'm not entirely sure how long it's been leaking as it's not a massive leak

Sometimes even with a new crank seal , if the surface it is running on has a wear groove it can leak, although normally you can feel it if you check.
Not saying impossible, but generally engine oil leaks down back of flywheel and not on to the clutch, unlike gearbox oil running down the first motion shaft straight into the clutch assembly.
Does it feel to you as if the clutch is dragging when disengaged, or jerky when pulling away up hill is another sign of oil on a clutch plate.
Not likely on modern cars with ECUs, but in the past if tick over to fast/high it could cause a grating when engaging reverse

 

[diddydee]

Sometimes even with a new crank seal , if the surface it is running on has a wear groove it can leak, although normally you can feel it if you check.
Not saying impossible, but generally engine oil leaks down back of flywheel and not on to the clutch, unlike gearbox oil running down the first motion shaft straight into the clutch assembly.
Does it feel to you as if the clutch is dragging when disengaged, or jerky when pulling away up hill is another sign of oil on a clutch plate.
Not likely on modern cars with ECUs, but in the past if tick over to fast/high it could cause a grating when engaging reverse

Hi mate thanks again for your response had a new clutch fitted and another new crank seal picked up the car today it's going back on Monday as every time I try to select reverse now it grinds every time phoned the guy he said he will take it to a gearbox specialist and see what they have to say either way he needs to sort something as it was grinding maybe 1 in 10 times before it went in

 

[jackwhoo]

Take it to gearbox specialist.......unusual approach as 99.99% of the time grinding trying to select reverse on that box is a clutch not disengaging fully.

 

[diddydee]

Take it to gearbox specialist.......unusual approach as 99.99% of the time grinding trying to select reverse on that box is a clutch not disengaging fully.

Mate I explained the symptoms before he did the job and he can't of diagnosed it first just assumed the clutch was contaminated from the crank seal leak and he can't of test drove it after otherwise he would of known it's still grinding all forward gears are sound no other noises from the gearbox as in release bearing but how does it come out worse than when it went in I ain't waiting until next week either I'll be parked up outside waiting for him

 

[bugsymike]

Hi mate thanks again for your response had a new clutch fitted and another new crank seal picked up the car today it's going back on Monday as every time I try to select reverse now it grinds every time phoned the guy he said he will take it to a gearbox specialist and see what they have to say either way he needs to sort something as it was grinding maybe 1 in 10 times before it went in

As a professional mechanic , why did he expect you to drive it away like that?

 

[diddydee]

As a professional mechanic , why did he expect you to drive it away like that?

It's ok mate it's going back in the morning whether he likes it or not as none of the gears felt like they did before just done an hour of driving every gear feels like it's clunky even with engine off every gear is stiff and can feels like it's catching

 

[AnthonyH]

It's ok mate it's going back in the morning whether he likes it or not as none of the gears felt like they did before just done an hour of driving every gear feels like it's clunky even with engine off every gear is stiff and can feels like it's catching

Sounds like he's done a bad job and now wants to pass it along to someone else, rather than fix it himself.

This whole interaction smells bad i'm afraid.

I'm not sure what condition the car is in, but it sounds like you could easily be spending its value on repairs.

 

[diddydee]

Sounds like he's done a bad job and now wants to pass it along to someone else, rather than fix it himself.

This whole interaction smells bad i'm afraid.

I'm not sure what condition the car is in, but it sounds like you could easily be spending its value on repairs.

It's annoying the hell out of me it's only done 82k and has been serviced regularly ill just take it back in the morning would of taken it today but needed to get to work tonight see what he says

 

[AnthonyH]

Let us know what happens. You'll be needing more advice most likely.

 

[rmjbn1]

Agree with jackwhoo above, sounds like the clutch isn't fully disengaging. So input shaft is still turning when you're trying to select reverse, hence the crunching. Most likely cause I think.

Could be air in the system, has it been bled? Could be faulty slave or master not pushing the release fork far enough. Could be worn or bent release fork.

I don't think the crankshaft seal has anything to do with reverse crunching. That would only cause clutch slip due to oil contamination.

 

[rmjbn1]

even with engine off every gear is stiff and can feels like it's catching

Or gear cables, if it's stiff with engine off?

Can you move the selectors on the gearbox? Video here on a 169 Panda:

Lost Gears after backing off the Drive. | FIAT Panda (Mk3)

Hi Everyone. I jumped in my 2011 1.2 (169) Panda this eve after its been sat on the drive for 6 days. Started up fine and backed off the drive, went to select first and there was a ping noise possibly and I couldn't select first. I managed to find second and crawl back onto the drive but now...

www.fiatforum.com

"If it moves at the gearbox but stiff with the gear lever the problem likely to be the cable

It's not uncommon for the cables to get rusty, sometimes you can temporarily fix it by getting some oil down the gearbox end of the cable Do not use grease"

 

[bugsymike]

Or gear cables, if it's stiff with engine off?

Can you move the selectors on the gearbox? Video here on a 169 Panda:

Lost Gears after backing off the Drive. | FIAT Panda (Mk3)

Hi Everyone. I jumped in my 2011 1.2 (169) Panda this eve after its been sat on the drive for 6 days. Started up fine and backed off the drive, went to select first and there was a ping noise possibly and I couldn't select first. I managed to find second and crawl back onto the drive but now...

www.fiatforum.com

"If it moves at the gearbox but stiff with the gear lever the problem likely to be the cable

It's not uncommon for the cables to get rusty, sometimes you can temporarily fix it by getting some oil down the gearbox end of the cable Do not use grease"

I agree , but doesn't account for grating, so as you said earlier hydraulics, unless clutch was damaged in fitting if they replaced it.

 

[diddydee]

Agree with jackwhoo above, sounds like the clutch isn't fully disengaging. So input shaft is still turning when you're trying to select reverse, hence the crunching. Most likely cause I think.

Could be air in the system, has it been bled? Could be faulty slave or master not pushing the release fork far enough. Could be worn or bent release fork.

I don't think the crankshaft seal has anything to do with reverse crunching. That would only cause clutch slip due to oil contamination.

Thanks mate it's going back in on Monday took it back Friday but he said I wouldn't of got it back Friday hopefully it just needs bleeding but I'll let you know thanks for your reply