buchan barchetta
New member
Thanks for the update Cribus.Roll on nice days so that I can take off my hard top.We have had wet weather up here in Aberdeenshire since last October.
Technical Rattle Underneath
- Thread starter Cribus
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Technical Rattle Underneath
Cribus
New member
I'm still in the honeymoon period with my hardtop and can't imagine taking it off ! Maybe summer will change my mind, if we get one. Okay here are some images showing how I placed the ties to stop the outer pads rattling. Please bear in mind that this solved an annoying rattle on my car, but may not work on others. On mine the outer pads often seemed free to rattle, except when the brakes were applied of course. Where the ties disappear from view they go under each arm of the pad's spring clip. All they are doing is holding the outer pad against the outer part of the caliper, by pulling in that direction on the pad's clip, and those two components should always be in contact anyway. As I said in an earlier post, I made sure the sliding part of the caliper was free to slide and well greased before doing this. The only downside I can see is that in summer and with lots of brake heat the ties might melt and fall off but that's hardly the end of the world - we'll see. Metal lockwire might be a good alternative. Finally, I'm no engineer so anyone who tries this does so at their own risk. All I can say is that my brakes have been working fine since I did this and the only difference is that an annoying and surprisingly loud noise has gone. And sorry about the third image, I can't get it to stay the right way up.
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gar074
Prominent member
I've only used my hardtop three times in 10 years (my B never goes out in the rain). I much prefer the B without the hardtop - with it on, it feels claustrophobic, and I can't escape the musty smell from the carpets and the occasional whiff of petrol from the fuel pump. Topless is the only way to go!
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Davefridge
Established member
I thought that most calipers had some sort of spring clip that provides a bit of tension to the "loose pad" to stop it from rattling. I wonder what sort of comment an MOT tester would say when he saw pads held in with cable ties! And yes, after a lot of braking, they would probably melt!
Cribus
New member
Yes some calipers have their own integral clip arrangement to stop pad rattle, but these don't. The pads have their own spring clips. The ties aren't holding the pads in, they're just linking the spring clip with the outer part of the caliper to stop space appearing between pad and caliper. The spring clips themselves are fine but I found earlier posts on the forum mentioning the rattle and its link to loose front pads, so it does seem to be an issue on some cars. We don't actually have an MOT over here in the IOM, so that's not a problem for me, but if others in the UK want to try this then they may wish to remove the ties for the test as eyebrows may be raised, I agree ! Personally I'll be trying a switch to lockwire or similar before the weather warms up, but each to their own.
Cribus
New member
Just a quick update in case it helps anyone else who's fed up with knocking and rattling noises. Okay my B still thumps into bumps and refuses to absorb any of them, but at least there are no longer any crashes, rattles, knocks or clonks when it does. Quick summary - rattle from the front was the outer pad in the offside caliper (see previous posts). Knocking from the front was the balljoints (complete replacement wishbones with new bushes and balljoints have been fitted, along with track rod ends and new shocks). And a loud clonking from behind the dash was the top mounts, replaced thanks to Henk at Barchettaparts but the new bearings weren't cheap. At the rear, new shocks got rid of the clonking from that area, one of the old ones had clearly burst a while ago and shed its oil. Plus the heatshield on the second to last silencer box was too close to the rear ARB, bending the shield away from it stopped the noise that was causing. My car's not high mileage, just over 39,000 miles, so I'm guessing there could be a fair few B's suffering from these noise issues. What made things worse was that I'd fitted a hardtop and the new-found lack of wind noise really emphasised the banging from underneath. All is calm now, but I'm still zig-zagging wherever I can to avoid potholes - no way am I re-doing all this in a year's time !
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Davefridge
Established member
Great feedback and info, Cribus. I've kept this report for future reference and I'm sure that many owners will find this report useful. Now get that hard top off and give it plenty of loud pedal!!
Cribus
New member
Cheers, wasn't sure whether others would be as bothered about noises as I am but hoped it would be worth posting. Bit of a dilemma with the hardtop, on the one hand summer seems to be on the way but my hood was on its last legs and the thought of trying to stretch a new one over the frame was a bit much. Tried that on an old Spitfire a few years back and it didn't go well. And the hardtop just makes the whole car feel much more solid, kind of like having multiple strut braces ! And I love the way the adjusted windows fit tight in to the hardtop seals, completely watertight, something I never managed with the hood. Oh well.
gar074
Prominent member
I've used my hard-top about four times in ten years. It just sits in the barn and gets cr*apped on by nesting swallows. I should sell it really, and use the ££ to buy a new hood.
Cribus
New member
Still in love with my hardtop - can't face taking it off yet. Maybe next summer. Previous owner had it sprayed Ferrari Nero black (and there was me thinking black was just black !) and it really lifts the whole car. Adds a bit of weight of course, but keeping my tank low to minimise the random fuel smell probably compensates for that anyway !
Cribus
New member
Firstly RIP Tony, as a very new member I didn't know you but anyone who is happy to spend their time helping others deserves to be remembered fondly.
Very trivial by comparison I know, but I posted a few weeks ago about a rattle from the front offside brake caliper which I fixed with ties shown in the image above. There were earlier posts from others a while ago talking about rattling noises from loose front pads. Well the noise slowly returned so I took the caliper apart again. Turns out the noise is from a combination of issues. Firstly, the pad spring clips on my car don't really get compressed that much by the caliper which is meant to push down on them to stop the pads moving. Secondly, the edge of the piston which pushes the inner pad against the disc is very close to the pin which runs through the centre of the pad's spring clip. In other words the piston is just meant to push on the back of the pad but actually seems to also make contact with the pin which secures the spring clip into the pad. I'm thinking that maybe the pads in my car aren't made to the tolerances they should be, and maybe in other cars too.
So if you have a rattle from up front that you can't pin down, take each wheel off and look in to the caliper towards the pads. You can see where the piston meets the inner pad, and if the piston looks too close to the centre pin which secures the pad's spring clip then that may be where the noise is coming from. I filed the pins down slightly on that side (not too much!) so that there is now a definite gap between spring clip pin and piston, and the noise is gone. Again. Hopefully for good this time! And I removed the ties I'd fitted earlier.
If none of this makes sense then have a look and hopefully you'll see what I mean. I should have taken a pic while I was under there but didn't. Don't assume that such a minor issue couldn't make an annoying rattle, it was much louder than you'd think.
Very trivial by comparison I know, but I posted a few weeks ago about a rattle from the front offside brake caliper which I fixed with ties shown in the image above. There were earlier posts from others a while ago talking about rattling noises from loose front pads. Well the noise slowly returned so I took the caliper apart again. Turns out the noise is from a combination of issues. Firstly, the pad spring clips on my car don't really get compressed that much by the caliper which is meant to push down on them to stop the pads moving. Secondly, the edge of the piston which pushes the inner pad against the disc is very close to the pin which runs through the centre of the pad's spring clip. In other words the piston is just meant to push on the back of the pad but actually seems to also make contact with the pin which secures the spring clip into the pad. I'm thinking that maybe the pads in my car aren't made to the tolerances they should be, and maybe in other cars too.
So if you have a rattle from up front that you can't pin down, take each wheel off and look in to the caliper towards the pads. You can see where the piston meets the inner pad, and if the piston looks too close to the centre pin which secures the pad's spring clip then that may be where the noise is coming from. I filed the pins down slightly on that side (not too much!) so that there is now a definite gap between spring clip pin and piston, and the noise is gone. Again. Hopefully for good this time! And I removed the ties I'd fitted earlier.
If none of this makes sense then have a look and hopefully you'll see what I mean. I should have taken a pic while I was under there but didn't. Don't assume that such a minor issue couldn't make an annoying rattle, it was much louder than you'd think.
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Cribus
New member
For those of you like me who are OCD about tracking down annoying rattles / knocks from underneath your cars, a while back I posted about a clattery rattle from my offside front caliper over rough surfaces. Whatever I did, the noise kept coming back. I was sure it was coming from the caliper as the noise disappeared when I pressed the brake pedal.
Firstly when reading my previous posts, please bear in mind that my car is pre-June 1997 and therefore has the earlier caliper design. Fiat switched to larger Bosch calipers around that time. For those with the later calipers, my previous posts may not make much sense !
Anyway I got fed up with the noise returning so eventually I bought a used pair of the later Bosch calipers from Henk at Barchettaparts, along with new pads. The later calipers drop straight in to pre-June 97 cars with no other mods (well they did on mine anyway !) After bleeding, not only has the clatter gone but so has the squealing the old brakes always used to make (despite constant use of anti-squeal paste on the back of the pads) and the brakes feel stronger. That may be down to the bleeding, but the contact area on the new pads looks larger and generally the later calipers look much beefier than the old ones (but they fit with room to spare behind the wheels).
The calipers were £55 or so, used of course, plus shipping from Holland and new pads. Maybe something to think about if you're obsessive about getting rid of noises.
Firstly when reading my previous posts, please bear in mind that my car is pre-June 1997 and therefore has the earlier caliper design. Fiat switched to larger Bosch calipers around that time. For those with the later calipers, my previous posts may not make much sense !
Anyway I got fed up with the noise returning so eventually I bought a used pair of the later Bosch calipers from Henk at Barchettaparts, along with new pads. The later calipers drop straight in to pre-June 97 cars with no other mods (well they did on mine anyway !) After bleeding, not only has the clatter gone but so has the squealing the old brakes always used to make (despite constant use of anti-squeal paste on the back of the pads) and the brakes feel stronger. That may be down to the bleeding, but the contact area on the new pads looks larger and generally the later calipers look much beefier than the old ones (but they fit with room to spare behind the wheels).
The calipers were £55 or so, used of course, plus shipping from Holland and new pads. Maybe something to think about if you're obsessive about getting rid of noises.
